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VFP suggestion for a help file within
- Thread starter bettyfurr
- Start date
Mike Lewis
Programmer
Betty,
If you have the current issue of FoxPro Advisor, take a look at my article "Help without the hassle". I think it will give you exactly the answers you need.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
If you have the current issue of FoxPro Advisor, take a look at my article "Help without the hassle". I think it will give you exactly the answers you need.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
Mike,
While that appears to be a picture of you at where's the article? I just got my January issue last week!
Rick
While that appears to be a picture of you at where's the article? I just got my January issue last week!
Rick
Mike's Help article is in the Feb issue.
Craig Berntson
MCSD, Visual FoxPro MVP, Author, CrysDev: A Developer's Guide to Integrating Crystal Reports"
Craig Berntson
MCSD, Visual FoxPro MVP, Author, CrysDev: A Developer's Guide to Integrating Crystal Reports"
Mike Lewis
Programmer
Rick,
Yes, it's the Feb issue.
However, I just realised that what Betty was probably asking for was not how to implement the help system, but what authoring tool to use.
Betty, if you follow the method I outlined in the article, you will have to use an authoring tool that supports the old-style Winhelp (HLP files) rther than the more recent CHM-style. That's because, with CHM files, you have to launch the full viewer each time the user hits F1, which adds overhead and gives the user more than they need. With HLP, you just get a quick pop-up window.
My own preference is for Help & Manual ( but there are many others on the market.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
Yes, it's the Feb issue.
However, I just realised that what Betty was probably asking for was not how to implement the help system, but what authoring tool to use.
Betty, if you follow the method I outlined in the article, you will have to use an authoring tool that supports the old-style Winhelp (HLP files) rther than the more recent CHM-style. That's because, with CHM files, you have to launch the full viewer each time the user hits F1, which adds overhead and gives the user more than they need. With HLP, you just get a quick pop-up window.
My own preference is for Help & Manual ( but there are many others on the market.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
Olaf Doschke
Programmer
Hi,
I don't see problems with CHM Help. This also gives you the opportunity to layout the help with HTML. If your help is small the HTML Help Workshop that come with VFP since VFP7 could be sufficient.
Bye, Olaf.
I don't see problems with CHM Help. This also gives you the opportunity to layout the help with HTML. If your help is small the HTML Help Workshop that come with VFP since VFP7 could be sufficient.
Bye, Olaf.
Mike Lewis
Programmer
Olaf,
I don't see problems with CHM Help
It's not really a problem. It's just that the aim of F1 help is to pop up a quick help window to give you instant information on the field you are editing. With "classic" help, that happens instantly, and the popup is right next to the field in question.
With CHM help, instead of a popup, the user has to negotiate the full help viewer, with all its tabs and navigation. Also, for that to be effective, the help author has to create hyperlinks, table of contents, keyword lists and all the other help paraphernalia.
In may cases, a full help system is what you want. But Betty was asking about quick and easy F1 help (as least, I assume that's the case).
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
I don't see problems with CHM Help
It's not really a problem. It's just that the aim of F1 help is to pop up a quick help window to give you instant information on the field you are editing. With "classic" help, that happens instantly, and the popup is right next to the field in question.
With CHM help, instead of a popup, the user has to negotiate the full help viewer, with all its tabs and navigation. Also, for that to be effective, the help author has to create hyperlinks, table of contents, keyword lists and all the other help paraphernalia.
In may cases, a full help system is what you want. But Betty was asking about quick and easy F1 help (as least, I assume that's the case).
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
Olaf Doschke
Programmer
Hi Mike,
you are talking about context help, which normally is called by [SHIFT]+[F1] and/or you have a WhatsThisBotton [?] on the Control Box and set the WhatsThisHelpID of controls. CHM help can also provide that, and it pops up like a ToolTip.
On the other side, if you want only a help like this, you may simply use ToolTip texts - and don't forget to set the ShowTips property of the form to .T.!
Bye, Olaf.
you are talking about context help, which normally is called by [SHIFT]+[F1] and/or you have a WhatsThisBotton [?] on the Control Box and set the WhatsThisHelpID of controls. CHM help can also provide that, and it pops up like a ToolTip.
On the other side, if you want only a help like this, you may simply use ToolTip texts - and don't forget to set the ShowTips property of the form to .T.!
Bye, Olaf.
Mike Lewis
Programmer
Olaf,
you are talking about context help, which normally is called by [SHIFT]+[F1] and/or you have a WhatsThisBotton [?] on the Control Box and set the WhatsThisHelpID of controls. CHM help can also provide that, and it pops up like a ToolTip.
Are you sure about that? What Betty specifically asked for was F1 help (although I believe WhatsThisHelp looks the same). Either way, CHM opens the full help viewer, not the popup.
On the other side, if you want only a help like this, you may simply use ToolTip texts - and don't forget to set the ShowTips property of the form to .T.!
I disagree. Tooltips have their place, but they are nowhere near as useful as a proper help popup, for the following reasons:
- Tooltips are limited to 127 characters (in VFP 7.0 and below), with no control over wordwrapping (in 8.0 and above, it's 4,095 characters with wordwrapping). A popup help window can be as long as you like, and you have full control over line breaks.
- Tooltips are limited to the default font and colours. Popup help can contain whatever combination of fonts, styles and colours you want, not to mention graphics.
- Tooltips only work with specific controls. Popup help can be applied to a control, a form or even if no form is open.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
you are talking about context help, which normally is called by [SHIFT]+[F1] and/or you have a WhatsThisBotton [?] on the Control Box and set the WhatsThisHelpID of controls. CHM help can also provide that, and it pops up like a ToolTip.
Are you sure about that? What Betty specifically asked for was F1 help (although I believe WhatsThisHelp looks the same). Either way, CHM opens the full help viewer, not the popup.
On the other side, if you want only a help like this, you may simply use ToolTip texts - and don't forget to set the ShowTips property of the form to .T.!
I disagree. Tooltips have their place, but they are nowhere near as useful as a proper help popup, for the following reasons:
- Tooltips are limited to 127 characters (in VFP 7.0 and below), with no control over wordwrapping (in 8.0 and above, it's 4,095 characters with wordwrapping). A popup help window can be as long as you like, and you have full control over line breaks.
- Tooltips are limited to the default font and colours. Popup help can contain whatever combination of fonts, styles and colours you want, not to mention graphics.
- Tooltips only work with specific controls. Popup help can be applied to a control, a form or even if no form is open.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
craigsboyd
IS-IT--Management
HTML Help does indeed provide support for popup text. Granted, HLP has a bit of a richer format available via RTF for these. HTML Help can overcome this somewhat by using HTML windows.
I noticed that bettyfurr used the phrase "manual on-line" (sic) in her orginal post here. With CHM you get the added benefit of being able to quickly and easily convert your help system into an online website (though this really doesn't speak to the F1 functionality)... you can use the html pages to produce the website manual or even convert your CHM using something like:
I noticed that bettyfurr used the phrase "manual on-line" (sic) in her orginal post here. With CHM you get the added benefit of being able to quickly and easily convert your help system into an online website (though this really doesn't speak to the F1 functionality)... you can use the html pages to produce the website manual or even convert your CHM using something like:
MichaelKopljan
Programmer
I agree with OlafDoschke. I use FrontPage to make HTML pages and HTML Help Workshop to produce CHM help file.
You can download my help file i make for my aplication:
Help is writen for Serbian Language!
You can download my help file i make for my aplication:
Help is writen for Serbian Language!
Mike Lewis
Programmer
Michael,
I agree with OlafDoschke. I use FrontPage to make HTML pages and HTML Help Workshop to produce CHM help file.
I'm not saying you can't produce CHM files from HTML pages, and I'm not saying that you can't use CHM files with F1 help. All I'm saying is that, if you use F1 help with CHM files, the user sees the full viewer window rather than a popup window.
Perhaps at this point it would be useful if Betty could let us know exactly what she wants to achieve. That way, we can focus the conversation accordingly.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
I agree with OlafDoschke. I use FrontPage to make HTML pages and HTML Help Workshop to produce CHM help file.
I'm not saying you can't produce CHM files from HTML pages, and I'm not saying that you can't use CHM files with F1 help. All I'm saying is that, if you use F1 help with CHM files, the user sees the full viewer window rather than a popup window.
Perhaps at this point it would be useful if Betty could let us know exactly what she wants to achieve. That way, we can focus the conversation accordingly.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
Olaf Doschke
Programmer
Mike Lewis said:
Which is wrong. But you're right, betty should decide, what she needs and wants.
Bye, Olaf.
Mike Lewis
Programmer
Olaf,
I'm going to have to actually set up a quick CHM F1 help system, to prove this one way or another. I'll do that as soon as I can grab a moment.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
I'm going to have to actually set up a quick CHM F1 help system, to prove this one way or another. I'll do that as soon as I can grab a moment.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
Olaf Doschke
Programmer
Hi Mike,
some hints:
You may setup different windows with and without the index/search, menu title bar.
You do not need to use the TextPopups Sectoin, as that is really just for text popups with no graphics as you stated, but you don't need to use that...
Bye, Olaf.
some hints:
You may setup different windows with and without the index/search, menu title bar.
You do not need to use the TextPopups Sectoin, as that is really just for text popups with no graphics as you stated, but you don't need to use that...
Bye, Olaf.
Mike Lewis
Programmer
Olaf and MichaelKopljan,
OK, here's what I did:
- Created a CHM help file.
- Created a topic with context ID = 500. This was a popup topic.
- No TOC, index or search terms in the help file. In fact, nothing but this one topic.
- In my VFP app, SET HELP TO this help file.
- In one of the controls on a form, set WhatThisHelpID to 500.
- Ran the app. Put focus in the contol. Pressed F1.
Result: the full Help viewer came up, just as I expected.
I also set the control's HelpContextID to 500 and repeated the test, with exactly the same result.
So, what's going on here? You two are obviously seeing something different to me.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
OK, here's what I did:
- Created a CHM help file.
- Created a topic with context ID = 500. This was a popup topic.
- No TOC, index or search terms in the help file. In fact, nothing but this one topic.
- In my VFP app, SET HELP TO this help file.
- In one of the controls on a form, set WhatThisHelpID to 500.
- Ran the app. Put focus in the contol. Pressed F1.
Result: the full Help viewer came up, just as I expected.
I also set the control's HelpContextID to 500 and repeated the test, with exactly the same result.
So, what's going on here? You two are obviously seeing something different to me.
Mike
__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)
My sites:
Visual FoxPro (www.ml-consult.demon.co.uk)
Crystal Reports (www.ml-crystal.com)
- Thread starter
- #18
Hi Guys,
I have reading your suggestions. I have been home with the flu.
I want to do a simple help file. The only help file that I have done is the dbf file with the F1 key bringing up the contents.
I have looked at the Visual Fox Help instructions on winhelp and html help. Which is better? especially when it comes to including the help in a distribution of an application exe.
Thank you, Glad to be back with all the responses.
Please tell Mike what is problem is. I want to know.
Betty
I have reading your suggestions. I have been home with the flu.
I want to do a simple help file. The only help file that I have done is the dbf file with the F1 key bringing up the contents.
I have looked at the Visual Fox Help instructions on winhelp and html help. Which is better? especially when it comes to including the help in a distribution of an application exe.
Thank you, Glad to be back with all the responses.
Please tell Mike what is problem is. I want to know.
Betty
Olaf Doschke
Programmer
Mike, I suggested defining a window type.
Click the Button "Add/Modify window definitions". Then you can define, what is displayed in this window, which toolbar buttons are on it. You may uncheck what you don't want. Under "Extended Style" you may even define it to be a "context help" window. I'd say this is the key to a HTML context help instead of simple text popups.
And then, if you put that topic as an item to a TOC, you can define the default frame and default window for that topic. And don't press F1, press SHIFT+F1 then click with the ?-Mousepointer on the control. This will start the "context" help.
Bye, Olaf.
Click the Button "Add/Modify window definitions". Then you can define, what is displayed in this window, which toolbar buttons are on it. You may uncheck what you don't want. Under "Extended Style" you may even define it to be a "context help" window. I'd say this is the key to a HTML context help instead of simple text popups.
And then, if you put that topic as an item to a TOC, you can define the default frame and default window for that topic. And don't press F1, press SHIFT+F1 then click with the ?-Mousepointer on the control. This will start the "context" help.
Bye, Olaf.
Olaf Doschke
Programmer
Hi Betty,
the old style WinHelp (HLP) is a little easier to deploy, as HTML help depends on several components installed (which is the smaller problem on even Win98 machnes nowadays, and you need to register two files from foxpro:
foxhhelpps7.dll
and
foxhhelp7.exe
Or ...8.exe/dll or ...9.exe/dll depending on the foxpro version.
If you build a setup with Installshield Express (you got that with VFP7+) that can be done quite easy.
The advantage of CHM help is of course, that you at least have the HTML Help Workshop to make that help. Other tools are certainly more comfortable.
Also take a look at:
Bye, Olaf.
the old style WinHelp (HLP) is a little easier to deploy, as HTML help depends on several components installed (which is the smaller problem on even Win98 machnes nowadays, and you need to register two files from foxpro:
foxhhelpps7.dll
and
foxhhelp7.exe
Or ...8.exe/dll or ...9.exe/dll depending on the foxpro version.
If you build a setup with Installshield Express (you got that with VFP7+) that can be done quite easy.
The advantage of CHM help is of course, that you at least have the HTML Help Workshop to make that help. Other tools are certainly more comfortable.
Also take a look at:
Bye, Olaf.
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