Users get smarter?

[Dollie]

The link:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...hive/2005/07/07/BUGPEDJTPC1.DTL&type=business

To quote the article: "Fears of computer viruses and other invasive software have caused a profound shift in how people use the Internet, including which Web sites they visit and e-mails they open, according to a study released Wednesday by the Pew Internet & American Life Project.

The survey found that 81 percent of Internet users say they no longer open e-mail attachments unless they know the contents are safe. Nearly half, 48 percent, said they have stopped visiting certain Web sites to avoid unwanted programs downloading onto their computers."

Knowing how surveys are quite often limited in scope, has anyone else noticed this happening?

Are users really getting smarter? Have the IT pros finally gotten through to users through education, news media and ridicule? (That last part was a joke, I only do that to my sister and Mom.)

 

[mrdenny]

The survey found that 81 percent of Internet users say they no longer open e-mail attachments unless they know the contents are safe. Nearly half, 48 percent, said they have stopped visiting certain Web sites to avoid unwanted programs downloading onto their computers."

Should we be reading that to say that people are pirating less software, priating less music, and going to less porn sites?

Are users getting smarter? Probably not. They just want people to think that they are. They've all seen the news about the problems, so they know how to answer when the IT guy asks what they've been doing. As if we can't check the logs and find out anyway.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)

--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)

http://www.mrdenny.com

(Not quite so old any more.)

 

[Volk359]

This just in...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/07/06/spyware.reut/index.html

 

[lionelhill]

Mrdenny, that's a bit sceptical! But I find it worrying that 19% of people still would open an e-mail attachment from an unknown source. What are they expecting to find in it?

Presumably they're the people who still think that a nice chap wants their help in transfering 57 million US dollars out of some dog kennels in a late dicator's back yard. But it won't work. I've already got the dollars. I sent my full bank details, so I expect my 10% to arrive any moment now...

 

[Dollie]

They've all seen the news about the problems, so they know how to answer when the IT guy asks what they've been doing.

This has been true of some things for a while.

"Help! My computer crashed and I didn't do anything to it!"

"Did you install anything new or open an e-mail attachment?"

"I didn't do anything to it! <crossing fingers behind back> I really didn't do anything!"

<cut to scene of me explaining why 47 different spybots, 2 viruses, and 60 million pop ups were present on the computer>

Next scene consists of me taking away all user rights other than the ability to turn the machine on and open Notepad....

 

[rvnguy]

All MIS/IS/IT,

Wonderful, a place to dump on users!!!!

You people haven't a clue!! It is your user base that keeps you employed....without us and our problems why would you be needed????

If you have the inclination read thread676-1049098

From a MIS/IS/IT REBEL

rvnguy

 

[Dollie]

If you have the inclination read thread676-1049098

Well thanks for the warning! It looks like you're quite confrontational and use wandering tangents often.

Being a "rebel" doesn't mean jumping all over people you do not agree with. That's called being a "troll" and it causes "flame wars".

Most techs here know for a fact that if users weren't around, duh, we wouldn't be here. HOWEVER, when users, after repeated attempts at training, retraining, and re-retraining, just don't get it (look at the years of spyware and virus abuses), some of us tend to "dump" on those specific users.

It is your user base that keeps you employed....without us and our problems why would you be needed????

Most techs who have a user base depend on those users, but they do not depend on those users to intentionally cause problems either through ignorance or lack of education.

 

[MasterRacker]

---or refusal to pay attention and learn -or refusal to follow policy -or....

<sub>Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.</sub>

 

[rvnguy]

Dollie,

Troll??? well I have been called worse...

"Jumping" or "Dumping" one in the same...was just dumping back on what I see as your dumping on us users.
"Flame Wars" this could be a positive thing as long as the burns are minor. Controversy is not bad if not rampant.

Aside, your community deserves a forum to "vent" and this is as good of a place as any...just beware of being a "demi-god" and open for critisism(hopefully constructive).

As you might have noticed, much of my experience in this area was prior to the

http://WWW NET

and I know that it's use provides for much concern ..too many out there looking to/doing things that make using a difficult proposition and maintaining probably a sheer nightmare.

MasterRacker,

"---or refusal to pay attention and learn -or refusal to follow policy -or...."

As you should have noticed, I take pride in refusing to follow policy, and feel partially responsible for shaping todays corp environment. While I believe I broke MIS policy in a manner within overall corp guidelines (albeit on the fringes)I also believe that many of these policies are/were not specifically for the benefit of the corp but are/were designed for MIS to exert control(beware holding on too hard you might lose your grip). The MIS'ers that had to deal with me, most probably, had or have a differing view. But the proof is in the pudding.

Just do not lump all "refusing users" into the same box. Some of us refuse control for a better environment, albeit against your policies. Some of us (scientists/engineers) users know what our needs are better than our assigned MIS'ers and you could learn something if you would only listen.

"Rock On"

rvnguy

 

[MasterRacker]

rvnguy, do a google on Sarbanes-Oxley and HIPPA for just a couple. Both define many requirements for data handling that MIS and Management are going to be responsible for implementing. The rogue user who doesn't follow policy is the one who's likely to get their company shut down.

Yes, there are plenty of MISers and Managers that donw't listen to the users needs, but there are also plenty of users who think they're the most important person in the organization and have no clue about the big picture beyond their little corner of the world. This is one of the reasons nonsense like classic TQM fails so often.

<sub>Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.</sub>

 

[Dollie]

All I know is I thank goodness every single day I have competent, qualified users. They know how to do their jobs, know how to communicate issues, and know what tools to recommend to do their jobs better. I'm glad I don't have any users that prefer to cause problems.

Knowing what you want and knowing how to communicate it are two different things. Just because you know what you want doesn't mean the person you're trying to explain it to understands. It works both ways.

No one here is lumping all "refusing users", but it seems that your issues (anti-MIS, anti-M$ and some control issues) might be better handled in another arena.

 

[rvnguy]

MasterRacker,

Thanks for the links. While I am a rebel at heart, I do realize there are venues where standards apply and must be adhered to. Owing to experience with EPA certification and sample tracking. Software Licensing is another area where stds must apply, not totally an MIS issue should be a cooperative Management effort and has become this with HR policies on responsibilities. Theft, is not tolerated(this is what unlicensed apps are). Just never liked MIS locking down our machines, no install of apps. Having personnel that wanted something specific to complete their task should be an easier path.

Sarbanes-Oxley: Really relates to the structured (always has been/or should have been) environment of the finance/accounting world. "Sound accounting practices" and the like. While I am not an accountant I do not see myself as the "rouge" you might be refeering to, I am another type of "rouge".

Having dealt with the "GOV" entities, one should realize that they define what the end result must be not how to acheive it(there can be many dont's and very few how's). If one wishes to comply through hard copy paper trail that is acceptable albeit not efficient in a large environ.

I closed my carrer as VP of R&D in fortune 100 firm. Just believe that the corp world wasted many $ fighting over clock cycles. As a technical group we ended up purchasing DEC's for our purposes early on (prior to the micro revolution) as we could never obtain the CPU time to assist in driving the business from our end. The accountants eventually messed themselves out of the control of their iron owing to imposing to much control and alas the MIS group was born to be the traffic cops for the CPU time.

Ohhh,, "EDI" this has been a bane to all for way too long and I would guess that the "micro" exacerbated this with the deludge of file types. There is still hope.

Dollie,

You might well be the exception as MIS'ers go (am I lumping all MIS'ers into ?) if this is true keep it up. Your users probably don't knoww how lucky they are. This really starts at the upper mng't level as they define what the MIS'ers misson is and what latitude they have in completing it.

Just a note, every user, at one time, was a neophyte. I sympathize with you in the current state. I always had people who picked it up in college or along the way, the current groups have people that were raised with it from childhood and might be very arrogant about their knowledge level for the sake of displaying it and possibly without a sound reasoning/business case for a possible change.

I love being controversial, in R&D this is the root of all ideation, challenge the norms.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to get your backs up (OK I was) good for the gray matter.

rvnguy

 

[MasterRacker]

rvnguy, I think you'll find that, on the whole, the membership of this site is more attuned their users' needs that most other IT related sites.

There's nothing wrong with stirring it up. The particular button of mine that you pushed is the "let the user's do whatever they want - they know their jobs best." I would argue that 1.) The may know their job, but are unlikely to know how their job fits with all the other jobs around them. 2.) As an IT guy, I can't administer a system I don't "control" and I can't be held responsible for thing's I don't "control".

If I have a system that is not meeting user needs, and the needs are defined through channels, I have no problem attempting to adjust the system to meet the needs as defined - that's the purpose of IT. In the meantime, it is not often to the benefits of the company to have users off doing their own chaotic thing.

As far as neophytes go, most of us don't dump on neophytes (much ;-) ) - the targets are the neophytes that never progress. The fifth time you explain the same basic concept to the same person it starts to get old. If a computer is a basic required tool for a position, the user who won't learn to use the computer is no longer qualified for the position, no matter how well they know the rest of the position.

I looked back at my posts and did not see where I used "rouge". ( I did see plenty of other typos however - grrr...)



<sub>Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.</sub>

 

[rvnguy]

MasterRacker,

"Rouge" was used by you in your post here on Sarbanes-Oxley.

I do not see where I used
"let the user's do whatever they want - they know their jobs best."

I did say
"Some of us (scientists/engineers) users know what our needs are better than our assigned MIS'ers and you could learn something if you would only listen."

This is a bit different that let user's do whatever they want. Check your gut.

On "control" I agree that you can not be held responsible for what you do not control....there are varying levels/types of control.

Dating myself: There were many instances in which computing interfacing was added to areas (machinists, fabricating shops, welding shops) where it had not existed before. These individuals were requested/required to use computers where they had not before, for the proposed benefit of the company and many had huge learning curves. While very adept at their choosen skill sets this added req was, in some cases difficult. Today where the computer is more of a "standard" requirement I would tend to agree on the surface. Hey, I can't weld.

Thank you for the feedback.

rvnguy

 

[MasterRacker]

Unless I'm turning dyslexic I only see "rogue". ;-)

Yes the user phrase was my intrepretation. Yes there are IS folks who do not listen to their users but my point is, at the end of the day, if they can't convince the IS folks and the IS policy is backed by management, the user's have to follow it even if it's a bad policy.

Users can and should work to get bad policies/procedures changed, however, before those changes, they must follow the existing policies because policies are essentially management instructions. Those who do not/will not follow their managers instructions should seek or be forced to seek employment elsewhere.

Yes there are steep learning curves with new technologies, but we all need to climb those curves or be left behind. Once again, my beef isn't with those who are starting the climb, but those who refuse to do it.

I've also been around long enough to remember when CNC equipment was a new deal. (I used to be able to weld a little - extremely poorly)



<sub>Jeff
[purple]It's never too early to begin preparing for [/purple]International Talk Like a Pirate Day

I was not born cynical - I earned my cynicism through careful observation of the world around me.</sub>

 

[rvnguy]

MasterRacker & Dollie,

OK OK I can't "cspel"
"I broke MIS policy in a manner within overall corp guidelines" my quote...yes you are correct but I said upfront "within guidlines" not rampant refusal. Even at that it appeared to me that it took the miser's an unduly long time to notice that what we ended up doing was actualy quite slick(our move to MS net & apps from Netware & other non integrated apps).

Thanks for the forum...back on point;

I agree with the original post. I believe that pc's and their use is more and more prevalent. Items, that in the past, were of interest only to a community like this one, are now headline news. Local and world news stories about some hackers or this or that virus are unfortunately common place. This awareness along with there being close to 60%(might be old) of all households owning a pc of some type(USA) makes this not only a workplace concern (you it'ers don't make house calls do you)? These facts, along with the new generations that were raised with PC's now entering the workplace and the attrition or possible learning of the older crowd makes the survey numbers quite believable. This is a personal observation as it is not one that I follow.

I think that the numbers will improve, with bout's of problems as the hackers find new avenues to attempt make all of lives more challenged. Darn them, they are the real loose cannons.

rvnguy

"I know everything..I just can't remember it all

 

[jaymaechtlen]

Probably there are any number of IT people who will make house calls- for enough money...
But, every time I look at some naive user's home machine, it winds up taking lots of time to clean up...
painful...

 

[Spirit]

Smarter users where do I apply for some whats the cost I FIND the budget for some of that!

Seriously though its taken some years but with work IT equipment very rarely do I get issues with users. They now understand that if they report "I was on looking at a website and all of a sudden a naked man / woman / horse etc. popped up I paniced clicked close and then another window came up say you are infected with spyware remove it now?" Then their PC's are fixed much much quicker than I didn't do it.

Just like you can get rougue Users you also get a lot of rogue IT'ers i.e. reading others' emails, copying software for home use etc.

Swings and round abouts really if the users didn't break things then we would have things to fix or improve the cycle would be broken and we'd all be for McD's rather than M$!

Iain

 

[johnpoole]

your point is right, i don't have users that save a single txt file on a cd. and i don't get calls from the same users because the computer lost all my files. 30 percent of my users are way improved, the bottom 30 are just confused beyond help. 10 percent of my users still surf porn, hard sites are blocked but google images get hit hard, one vp spends hours a day on "babe of the day" it is better,, btw.. we do listen to users, it usually makes for decent jokes to share... we do networks, and it security.. you want us to insure you a stable safe network,, then we sorta need to set a few little silly rules just my 2

john poole
bellsouth business
columbia,sc