user not cooperating

[VBmim]

Hello all

I have worked for 3 years in a small firm where I have to do all tasks referring to IT (programming, network-admin, system-admin, db-admin, intern helpdesk,...). I didn't receive training for the admin tasks, so all I know I learned by myself (not much help from my it-manager/boss neither).

I have a problem with one of my colleagues, let's call him C. C has been in the firm for a long time (more than 10 years), and he is head of his department (and takes this very seriously). When, as a system administrator, I tell him to do/not do certain things, he doesn't take me seriously, laughs at me, ignores what I'm saying. Because I didn't want to 'nag' to my boss about it, I kept my frustrations for myself for a long time.

I’m not going to explain it in details, but I had another struggle today with this guy. This time I called my boss to help, the dude talks himself out of the struggle (by telling me and my boss a bunch of cr*p) and gets his way again.

I finally, for the first time since I work here, said to my boss that I had a problem with C's attitude, and that what he said wasn't exactly true. My boss says that he knows the guy is difficult, and he sees that I have a problem........ and gives me a sheepish smile (meaning he won’t do nothing).

I’ve had some frustrations about my boss too in the past (who doesn’t), because he doesn’t seem interested in what I’m doing and doesn’t really ‘manage’ me the way I would want to…
But now he completely lets me down. I understand that he doesn’t always has the time to talk about problems, but a simple phrase would have done enough (“I don’t have time right now, but we can schedule some time later to discuss whatever problems you have”).
Now I feel totally unsupported and alone with my problems.

I don’t feel/think there is any solution for this, I think I just needed to rant…

God, days are long when these things happen…

 

[Dollie]

In this day and age there are many dangers on the internet. In order to keep our company's network safe, we must employ a few standards for our network. Attached is an Internet Usage Policy and a Network Usage Policy. Please sign the signature page on both and return to me by this date."

And follow up until you have signatures from everyone. If he's a manager and refuses to follow a simple, safe policy, then the boss needs a clue by four upside the head. Sometimes, trial by fire is best. Let the guy screw up, just have a full backup on hand!

 

[SQLSister]

Welcome to the wonderful world of office politics. Looks like this guy has much more power than your boss and your boss knows it.

What to do? From now on, document every problem (include date and time) you have with the guy in writing. Especially document any incident where he didn't follow the rules and caused a problem that cost the company money (including lost productivity). Don't talk about attitude, only actions.

Schedule to meet with your boss to discuss the current problem as soon as you can. To be fair to your boss, he doesn't know you have had lots of problems with this guy because you haven't told him. Tell him all the problems the guy has caused and ask what you can do to avoid problems with him in the future. Be factual not judgemental about the guy's attitude. Cite your concerns about why it is important that he follow the rules.

Note that he told you that you certainly had a problem - expect this to mean he will come down on the manager's side. So concentrate your talk on what he thinks you should do to make this relationship work better.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[carp]

And if push comes to shove (and your boss has a boss), you may have to go up the chain of command (aka "going over your boss's head"). It's a risky maneuver, but it sounds like you may not have too many options left!
I have found in the past that just CCing the hierarchy can work miracles in a superior's attitude; if they know somebody above them is aware of the situation, they are suddenly motivated to do something about it. The risk, of course, is they may decide that "doing something about it" involves getting back at you!
The preceding suggestions are excellent - getting signed acknowledgements definitely gives you ammunition for the future. But if that doesn't help, then you may need to leverage more horsepower.
I've been there, it's not pleasant, and it's not easy. I wish you all of the luck you are going to need!

 

[hilfy]

What to do? From now on, document every problem (include date and time) you have with the guy in writing. Especially document any incident where he didn't follow the rules and caused a problem that cost the company money (including lost productivity). Don't talk about attitude, only actions.

Don't forget to include the cost of your time to fix the problem as well as information about what you weren't able to complete because you had to fix this guy's issues.

-Dell

 

[infinitelo]

You may have missed a very import point sql sis made,
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like this guy has much more power than
your boss and your boss knows it.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If this is true its like taking on the illumnate
you could get burned on this one big time.

put it in perspective. is the activity of c really going to do damage. when we deal with people that we have a hard time with we tend to over react when they violate protocal.

stay focused on real issues, facts and never attack personality. i gaurentee that if the deficate hits the oscilator c will be in the clear and you will be scrambleling.(and maybe your boss too)


if it is to be it's up to me

 

[VBmim]

Hello

Tanks for the many responses.

Dolly:
I like the idea of some sort of policy, for the moment we have none. My boss thinks policy's are restricting freedom and he doesn't like that (eg. we have no limits on mailbox size or mail size, because he doesn't feel good restrincting that). To start with a written policy I would have to have his approvement and I'm likely not to get it. But it stays a good idea.

SQLSister & hilfi:
C definitly has more power than my boss, but it is simply because my boss is to lazy (I can't find a more suitable word) to stand up to him. C has been in the company for 10 years, my boss is the vice president an has been here for almost the beginning (more than 20 years ago). It doesn't realy make sense. I don't have the assurance and self-confidence to stand up to C (I don't think I could stand up to anyone, but I'm working on that), but I had hoped that my boss would have given me a hand here.
For him, this kind of 'feeling/sentimental' problems are no real problems, and he resolves them by ignoring them (I've seen him do this several times before). That's one of the reasons I waited so long to talk to him about it. I thought that the fact C was lying to him would have been enough to get him to do something.
Now that I'm writing this all down, I wonder with whom I have the most problems, C or my boss...
I'll certainly document, but I think the documentation will be more for myself. I'm affraid my immediate boss will give me the 'I-already-know-and-seen-this-but-you'll-just-have-to-live-with-it' look, and I'm affraid my big boss won't believe me (or C will find yet another way to talk himself out of it).

Carp:
Hmmm... The only boss left is the bigg boss, owner of the company. In fact, him and my boss are kind of friends. It seems like a logical thing to do, but something tells me I shouldn't do this. I know others have had problems with C, mostly wimen (I suspect him to think little of wimen, but can't realy proove that). Maybe I should talk to them and ask them if they have been to the big boss with it, and if so, how he reacted. I think there is someone here to who I could talk to.

infinitelo:

put it in perspective. is the activity of c really going to do damage. when we deal with people that we have a hard time with we tend to over react when they violate protocal.

It IS true that I'm likely to accept 'bad behaviour' from someone else easyer that I would accept his. I realy try to be fair to everyone, but it's hard when he is irritating me so much. He's the kind of guy who likes to take revenge. He's done this with several people, including me. It's not career-devasting or striking revenge, but little things.

By doing the things in his way, he is less productive in my opinion. Because of the stress he is giving me, I am less productive by his actions, but I think I have to learn to stay more calm in these situations (I have a long way to go).

Geez, what a post! Thanks everyone for all the advice. I hope all of the above makes sense...

AlmostWeekendGreetz

Mim

 

[Dollie]

Mim,

Maybe you could approach your boss in this manner...

Tell him that it appears that most companies these days have some type of internet/network usage policy in place to avoid any type of legal liability. This policy can be used to protect the company from many things. You would like this policy in place because you're a devoted employee who cares about the company, its reputation and its future.

Never forget that sugar always works better than vinegar.

It may also prevent this -->

 

[Luckyfour]

Given the complexity of your problem, probably all you can do is cover yourself. I would communicate with him by email and print it off. If there are future problems, etc., you have the documentation to prove what was said. I suspect, legally, that if it's not written, it didn't happen. This guy probably enjoys the power struggle and frustrating you. Try not to participate by using email.

 

[webmigit]

I quit a job I loved because I worked remotely and I got along great with the CEO but they started cutting off my direct access when I started explaining to him some new protocols he needed to place.

He loved the ideas, but they didn't, it meant real work that they couldn't delegate... (Like instead of asking me to do something... actually log it in this board I setup so that it could be reviewed and they could see all that I'd accomplished.).

So they kept messing with my job and not letting me talk to him... He was always out... his emails were always down..

After I quit, I had to talk to them a few more times and one time the biggest PITA there (pain in the...) told me "[The CEO] says he's sorry things happened the way they did and wishes you the best in all that you do."

I hate them...

But the point is, they were good ideas that helped, but they stepped on a few toes... and it was not like I didn't try to get people to use the board first, but they wouldn't and it was making my job harder, remembering every detail of every idea... And when something was a good idea EVERYONE would claim it, and when something wasn't, noone would... And the biggest PITA would always say "[CEO] says this takes priority... drop all other things to do this..." just because Pita thought she had a good idea and wanted it done.

The CEO only said something was priority like... once... so since she had no kind of admin access to the board, if he was gonna say it was priority, it was logged.

ALFII.com

http://www.alfii.com

---------------------
If this post answered or helped to answer your question, please reply with such so that forum members with a similar question will know to use this advice.

 

[SQLSister]

C definitly has more power than my boss, but it is simply because my boss is to lazy (I can't find a more suitable word) to stand up to him. C has been in the company for 10 years, my boss is the vice president an has been here for almost the beginning (more than 20 years ago). It doesn't realy make sense.

VBMin - you really need to get to a bookstore or a library and get a book on office politics. Length of time in the job and relative organizational position do not correlate to the amount of power one has.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[leztek]

VBmim...

I run into the simular situation at my office quite frequently.

Do a search on the web. There is many good articles about the liability of employers and what is on THEIR computers. Stress the point, the computers are company property, not the employees, the data that is on the computer belongs to the company and they are the ones liable for what it on them. Make certain, you find one or two good articles about lawsuits and settlement amounts. Management only sees things as money! I know easier said then done.


I made my point well know to the "higher ups" and every now and then I'll drop a email of an article I found on the web about secuity risks, lawsuits or other relavent materials.

Hey, I'm not stepping on anyones toes, just making sure everyone aware of the issues at hand and just keeping everyone in the loop.

Not sure if you company has HIPPA compliancy? If so, you could use that as an angle.

Like Luckyfour said cover your behind. If something happens you will be the first to blame. But at least you can say that you tried to warn everyone.

Documentation! Documantation! Documentation!

Drop me an email. I wrote a internet use policy sometime ago, you are more than welcome to a copy. Names changed of course to protect the guilty

JLez

 

[svanels]

he is head of his department (and takes this very seriously)

I tell him to do/not do certain things

Rule number one in office politics, you don't tell the boss, you advice or suggest....

every now and then I'll drop a email of an article I found on the web about secuity risks, lawsuits or other relavent materials

You make them curious, probably they do not know the risks they are exposing the company to.

My boss always told me:
If the Mountain won't go Mohammed, Mohammed will go the Mountain

But also he had this phrase:
Let the shit hit the fan

If you have covered yourself thouroughly, give him enough rope to hang himself, (but have a rescue plan ready).

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[leztek]

svanels

They have no idea. The President of the company can't check his email without help.

My boss breaks every rule, even after I stressed and stressed again the importance of not doing the things they do.

I just sent out an article from Windows IT regarding spyware and the dangers.

I always have a plan, but I'm going to make sure I take my sweet time getting it done if it is need. Not the ethical thing to do, but I want to prove my point.

Hmmm... I wonder if there's a way to run a fire drill so to speak. Make the system go down to prove my point. Again, not the ethical thing to do, but might make people understand.

JLez

 

[willir]

VBmim

You are in a tough spot, but how much of the problem is serious??

What you did not state is how Mr C is a pain -- what specifically does he do beside give you grief? Is this just a turf war where Mr C believes you have no ability to tell him what to do?

First, most companies have a policy on Internet. Then passwords and use of IT resources. These are HR policies that are endorsed by senior management.

If your company does not have such policies, and they dont want them, then they are at risk - bit time. They may have been hacked already and not know it.

These are not policies on disk space, installing applications, these are bare-bones use of computer resources.

If you want to follow this line of thinking, do some research and prepare some hard facts. For example, cost of illegal software.

Want to push? Most management are concerned about costs and liability. Explain to your manager that you are concerned about security, etc. You feel your network is vulnerable. Then show him how easy it is to remote control tools to grab information off another PC -- do this in front of him. (Long time ago, I always had battles with senior engineers. They kept cutting costs by removing security from my "solutions". I sat the senior engineer in my office and showed him what I could do -- blew him away. He stopped cutting out the security part of my "solutions")

And be prepared to "walk". Personally, I would not be happy working for "Mom and Pop" enterprize that did not want to improve.