Unfair treatment to those with children in IT? 8

[BeckahC]

I am just wondering if this seems to happen to anyone else out there. I used to be considered an excellent programer, got excellent reviews and raises yearly. I had a baby earlier this year and now all of a sudden I am doing the same work (if not more) and being berated, given poor reviews and no raise this year at all!

I would not have considered that this was because of my new family status if my boss had not said that it seemed to him that I am thinking more of my family than of work! Which is true, but still ridiculous to note! I still do all of my work well and on time and all of the users of my programs are totally satisfied, as always... the only thing that has seemed to change is my boss's attitude towards me. The real kicker is that he seems to be doing the same thing to another woman in the group who had her baby a couple of months before me.

I am thinking this might be illegal, but am afraid to comment on it or I might get fired or "laid off" and I really need the benefits from this position, even though the pay is barely enough to cover childcare!

Any ideas, suggetions, kindred spirits out there?

BeckahC

 

[lespaul]

At least you can work from home. Even though I could work from home, it's not allowed. So I have to take leave every time I stay home with a sick kid.

Also, I believe that only companies with more than 500 employees are required to allow employees to take FMLA. Also, it's not paid, if you have enough leave accumulated for 12 weeks off, well then you get paid for all your time off, but if you don't have the leave then, it's time off without pay.

Luckily, I work in an IT department where everyone is a parent and our boss is pretty accomodating when we need time off for the kids.

les

 

[rosieb]

This is crazy, I have no kids, but have recently had to spend a lot of time looking after a sick father. My boss's view is "do what you have to do, email/text when you get a chance". If necessary, I work from home - on trust to put in the hours.

(10yrs ago I remember being given compassionate leave when my cat died! OK, I had an unusual boss then).

Don't employers realise that staff with family responsibilities tend to be more loyal and committed, especially if given a little leeway when they have problems.

My current boss has two children and operates a "family friendly" policy, if he has problems - he takes off - family has to be the priority. The end result is a highly committed group, we all cover for each other and the work gets done.

 

[SF0751]

FMLA applies to all US employers who have 50 or more employees (not 500). You are correct, however - it is UNPAID leave.

Susan
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[Tarwn]

In the end it all comes down to managers in positions they don't understand, looking over people they don't understand, trying to reach goals when they don't understand how to get from point A to point B.

I see this in a lot of areas these days, but more-so in the IT sector. I have real respect issues when it comes to management. Unless the manager could do what they are asking me to do I turn into a real smart-..s. It doesn't matter whether it would take them 6 weeks longer, it's the capability that matters. People that tell me "this is what we are doing", but don't understand the least that is involved in getting it done aren't managers, they're placeholders designed to make my life more difficult. The same is true with people mis-management. Happier employees do work better, if a manager can't understand some of the basic tenets of management, how can I be expected to respect their wishes on how I get my job done?
I have had two managers in my short history that I have actually respected. The rest have been glorified sales people, or people who only took a job for the money but could care less about what they are doing (mostly out of a fear that sopmone would find out they didn't know what they were doing).

You can be the best general manager in the world, but if you don't understand at least the basics of what you just told me to spend the next 6 months on, your not doing your job.

I know this doesn't quite fall under the maternity/paternity leave/change of expectations, but it's a broader view no the mis-management that is running rampant through IT.

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[BeckahC]

I actually do have to take my personal time to work from home - I can stay home with my baby, take a personal/sick/vacation day, but am still expected to check all e-mail and voice mail and support the users from home as needed!

FMLA does apply only to companies w/50 employees or more and required job security, not pay. I am lucky enough to work somewhere which does pay through disability benefits for part of the maternity allotted through the FMLA. However, I also worked from home occassionally during my Maternity leave as well...

It's funny... when I have had to work weekends, I was told expressly that I would have to find someone to watch my daughter and was not allowed to bring her - others, with older children were allowed to bring them in if they needed to... I guess my boss figures that older children are easier to keep occupied and to "ignore" than babies? I am lucky enough though, that my mom lives nearby and is great with her, but I still missed having my weekend time with my little girl!

As far as grief time, my boss got ticked when I took multiple days last year to mourn the loss of my grandfather... seems he can come into work and go to a friend/family member's funeral in the same day, so why can't everyone? Maybe it is just my boss that has a major problem! AARRGGHHH!

"You can be the best general manager in the world, but if you don't understand at least the basics of what you just told me to spend the next 6 months on, your not doing your job."

My boss has me learning Natural right now, I think because he doesn't understand "That other stuff" that I do! (ie: SQL Server, ASP, etc...)

BeckahC

 

[lionelhill]

Lets face it, a lot of the most talented (and nicest) people in the world have babies. It's just natural. Any employer who demoralises (or worse, chucks out) his/her employees for having a baby is not only breaking the law: they are wasting the greater part of the creative talent available in the world, and steering their own group towards failure.

 

[BeckahC]

Very well said!

I have got to say, I was talking with a friend in the hall at work earlier about sippy cups, and we passed by my boss - what a face! He didn't dare say anything at the time though... I am sure his despisement of family (or family talk at work) will come through in some other way in the near future though... I honestly wish I had a camera! ;-)

It really does not make sense to penalize a person for having a family and caring about them. I can't see working here much longer if the attitude doesn't change for the better soon! I would rather work elsewhere where my talents might be better appreciated, and my personal life is allowed to be a part of who I am!

BeckahC

 

[BJCooperIT]

Sometimes it is impossible for a boss to empathize with a working parent's problems. The same boss who thought baby sitters were cheap actually changed his tune when he and his wife had their first child a year later.

I remember once saying something unkind about a girl who took off a full week when her grandmother passed away. It seemed to me that she was taking advantage of the situation. I am not an insensitive person, but I had no way to relate since I had grown up without grandparents in my life. How could I have possibly have understood the close relationship they had? You know what they say about walking a mile in someone's shoes?

BeckahC,
I hope whatever you decide works for you and your family. Please remember that you are blessed to be able to work from home when necessary. And you are lucky to have a job where you can learn new skills. If you do decide you cannot put up with his actions, consider talking to your personnel department before resigning. Perhaps they can have some influence on his actions, especially since you are not the only one he has targeted.
Good Luck!

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[BeckahC]

BJCooperIT,
I appreciate what you're saying. I am pretty sure that unless we have "been there" it is hard for many of us to empathize with a situation. What baffles me is that my boss has 3 kids of his own, and he still seems to place work above all else!

I certainly do not expect "special" treatment... being treated like everyone else would be fine by me. Honestly, I am getting tired of working in a field where work is the end-all-be-all, or supposed to be...

BeckahC

 

[lespaul]

Beckah,

You keep mentioning that your boss has children and should be a little more understanding. How much do you think he actually does in regards to the child rearing? From the way you're portraying him, I bet his WIFE is the main caretaker and she can't get him to realize how much work it takes to care for children!

Leslie

 

[BeckahC]

Very true! I have actually heard bets from others in my group that they think he HATES his family and that's WHY he is such a workaholic! He has mentioned that he believes it was kind of hard "for his wife" when they were starting their family, but that she had STAYED HOME. So perhaps he believes that if we cannot put our families out of our minds while at work we shouldn't be here?! I most definitely feel sorry for that poor woman, who probably had even less help than I do in thosse early years with their kids!

Thanks for pointing that out, it's a very good point!

BeckahC

 

[SQLSister]

I suspect Leslie is right, many men, even today, have little or nothing to do wioth rearing their children. Sad, but true.

You can't give someone an empathy transplant. So yes, for your mental health, you should probably find a job in a more congenial environment. But until you do, I would keep the baby talk out of the work place anywhere in front of your boss or someone who might mention it to him.

After reading through this thread, I think your boss may also have a point. It appears to me that since you had a baby, your attitude towards work and the amount of effort you are willing to put in has changed from the past. From the perspective of a manager, this would appear to be a drop in performance because he feels he can't rely on you the way he did before to work weekends and extra hours. I think you might need to give some genuine thought to how things have changed and why this might be causing problems for him.

It is often easier for people to accept the needs of parents who were parents at the time they were hired than to deal with new parents because the behavior patterns do change and people are unsettled by that.

 

[sleipnir214]

On the subject of men and their involvement with their children [being a male]...

I cannot count the number of times that when I go to parent/teacher meetings with my kids' teachers, how many have commented on how "unusual" and "great" it is to see fathers taking the time to attend the meetings.

I don't know about everywhere else, but what SQLSister and BeckahC are saying sure seems to apply to the fathers of my kids' schoolmates.

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[BeckahC]

I think it is true that the topics of private conversations have changed and that my attitudes have changed, like the "sippy cup conversation" I had with my friend, on the way to the Cafe in the building for LUNCH - however, there has been no drop in my perfomance that I have noticed. I have continuously been complimented by users and co-workers on jobs well done and I have yet to miss a deadline or say that I can't make it to work on a weekend or evening when requested (other than once because I was in the wedding party for a friend of mine and had known about it, paid for the dress and my friend had paid for my plate for me to be there months before I was ever asked to come to work - but that's got nothing to do with my baby).

I do think I can understand his perspective - he might think that he can't count on my being there when he needs me because if my baby gets sick, I would have to stay home... but why is it not an issue that I might get sick? That stuff happens, it's unpredictable, and it happens whether a person has children at home or not. I don't think it is his job to speculate on what ifs and worst case senerios that have yet to happen... at least not when it comes to my reviews or job ratings, I thought those were based on observation of my work. I thought he could only "grade" me on what I do and what I have done... which to date has been nothing but excellent work that has not dropped in quality or quantity since I have become a mom. I can actually say that over the past couple of months, due to increased work volume in my dept, there has been an INCREASE in my work volume and turnout, which he does not seem to be noticing - he is not much for the hands-on approach and does not make it his business to know what we are up to specifically unless his boss asks him about it.

I guess my issue is that he hears personal conversations, on personal time, sees a few pics of my baby and my family at my desk (he doesn't seem to have any on his) and thinks that my performance is lacking because I can manage to have a life beyond work and he doesn't seem to have an interest in one... perhaps that sounds harsh, but no one I have spoken to in private about this has anything but similar things to say of him.

Another reason I have a problem with this could be that my previous bosses have all been more family oriented and friendly... like when they would come in they would actually say things like "hi, how are you? how's your family/parents/husband?" etc... this guy seems to barely say "hi" most of the time. Almost insulting when you're used to working for people who seem to care about you and not just what you can do for them. But I guess that is just a difference in personalities too. I have been working at this company for quite a few years - since I was 20 and started out as a clerk and have never had a problem with any supervisor or boss like this.

I used to enjoy coming to work every day, enjoy working here and felt great about what I was doing. I dread waking and coming in now and perhaps my attitude has suffered from that as well, rather than just because I have a baby at home, I think that started not long after I started working for this boss, though.

BeckahC

 

[BeckahC]

sleipnir214

I think your children are very lucky to have such an involved father! I would likely be one of those moms complimenting you on attending!

Perhaps I am just a tad naive, but why would more men not wish to be involved in their childrens' lives? Seems like it would be quite a rewarding experience... Not looking to start a debate or anything. I just think it's wonderful when I hear of men like sleipnir214 who really make the effort to be involved in the childrens' lives.

BeckahC

 

[sleipnir214]

he might think that he can't count on my being there when he needs me because if my baby gets sick, I would have to stay home... but why is it not an issue that I might get sick?

It could be your boss sees it this way: With a single person, I have one point of failure. With a parent, I points of failure at the kid and the parent. The kid gets sick, and the parent stays home. Then the parent gets the wog from the kid and has to stay home a second time.


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[BeckahC]

very true!

I honestly don't stay home sick myself unless I can't move or (sorry to be graphic) can't leave the bathroom - I have been working for the past week feeling like I am about to pass out or fall over where I stand... but as I mentioned, he doesn't notice stuff like that anyway.

BeckahC

 

[BJCooperIT]

I once had a very smart person point out to me the difference between my problems and someone else's problems. The other person's problems only affect you if you allow them to affect you. Your boss's attitude toward children and family is his problem and he is the only one who should suffer from it.

Have you ever tried asking him a "child-rearing" question like: "How did you stop the itch when your son/daughter had chicken pox?". Perhaps drawing him into family-type conversations will give you some insight or make him see your situation more clearly. It may not, but at least you will know that you tried.

As far as work is concerned, if you don't already do it, keep a log of all your tasks, deadlines and accomplishments. Make notes when the users give you feedback or when other factors affect your deadlines (like no training, server crashes, etc.). This is a bit different than a timesheet. It is: "Here is what I did, when I did it, how well I did it and how the work environment was a help/hindrance". Have this log on hand at your next review to refute his opinions with your facts. Most companies I have worked for have a policy in place where you can contest a poor review.

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[BeckahC]

BJCooperIT

Excellent suggestion! I will start keeping a log immediately - I already keep track of changes through company software that tracks them... but I am sure that only accounts for a % of my time... At the time of my recent review I was quite dumbstruck and barely said 2 words... in hindsight, I should have spoken up more and contested it, but I was so insulted and confused I am surprised, honestly, that I did not break down there in his office, he took me so much by surprise! He has me scheduled for a follow-up review in Jan... I am going to sock him with some MAJOR paperwork showing what I have accomplished between now and then (he seems to love paperwork and OVER-documentation).

As for the asking parenting related questions, I have tried to strike up a conversation here and there... all I got was how his wife always handled "stuff like that" and then a little of how he "thought" his wife handled it and how his wife "seemed" to feel about things when they had a new family, etc... he really seems out of touch with things of any kind of personal or family related nature. A shame, if you ask me. In my experience, the managers that are most empathetic (not pushovers, just understanding and kind where the situation calls for it) are the most effective and productive ones.

BeckahC

 

[SQLSister]

You might also consider making sure you tell him about the things you do especially if he is not very hands-on. And get the satisfied customers to tell him, too.

Whne you complete a project, email him or make him a copy to: recipient for all the emails you send concerningjob completions.

When I recently did my evaluation, I carefully and in excrutiating detail listed everything I did the previous year down to counting the numbers of stored procedures and tables I created. They really can't argue when you have metrics. I also discussed the relative complexity of the tasks which were more difficult than an ordinary one. For instance I wrote several stored procedures that were far more complex than a stored procedure with a single select/insert/update/delete statement. I made sure my boss knew that. He is a network admin, so he has no idea what I do on a day-to-day basis.

And yes you could talk to HR about your performance rating, you can contest a poor one you don't think you deserve. Again, go in with a detailed list of what you did and how that compares with waht he said you did. The more documentation you have the better.