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to china and india
- Thread starter crashuk
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Just doubled my investment in a mutual fund that specializes in India. Lots of potential there.
Chip H.
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Chip H.
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If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
I actually read an article the other day (can't remember where), saying India is starting to become to expensive as wages in IT areas have rocketed. Apparently South Africa is the next big one.
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
BackStageJim
IS-IT--Management
I feel that India software will collapse by 2010. As more and more jobs are sent there the truth of poor code, mistakes and QA failures will rise. Causing budget domestically to rise for re-writes and delays. The call center idea that ‘Bob and Sue’ are answering from ‘USA’ will also backfire. I agree that South Africa will be the next logical solution.
We have to remember that the main reason companies go to low wage countries is that we want every thing cheap and 24/7, clothes, services, cars, steel, waste disposal, quality is often an after thought.
Unfortunalty, we (the "developed" countries) have now priced ourselves out of this field. So until we either pay more (or more to the point, the corporations are willing to cut profits) it will continue on a merry go round of cheap labour.
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
Unfortunalty, we (the "developed" countries) have now priced ourselves out of this field. So until we either pay more (or more to the point, the corporations are willing to cut profits) it will continue on a merry go round of cheap labour.
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
ctopher06
I kind of agree and disagree. In many fields (UK) the unions are fighting to get people who deserve decent money, but at the same time (not mentioning any uk car company that went bankrupt), still demand high, disproportionate pay rises.
The problem with Unions are that unless they are in touch with reality, then they are a waste of space and can be the workers worst enemy.
Imagine the scenario.
Give us a 10% pay rise or we strike.
No
They strike
Company has 2 choices:
1. pay 10% rise and risk losing money or the
2. Screw you, we'll close down and move abraod.
These days option 2 is often choosen much quicker than before, as now it's so much easier to do.
Well that's my opinion....
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
I kind of agree and disagree. In many fields (UK) the unions are fighting to get people who deserve decent money, but at the same time (not mentioning any uk car company that went bankrupt), still demand high, disproportionate pay rises.
The problem with Unions are that unless they are in touch with reality, then they are a waste of space and can be the workers worst enemy.
Imagine the scenario.
Give us a 10% pay rise or we strike.
No
They strike
Company has 2 choices:
1. pay 10% rise and risk losing money or the
2. Screw you, we'll close down and move abraod.
These days option 2 is often choosen much quicker than before, as now it's so much easier to do.
Well that's my opinion....
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
dilettante
MIS
Yeah, let's all live on 3rd world wages.
Jump down turn around, pick a bale of cotton
Jump down turn around, pick a bale a day
Oh lordy, pick a bale of cotton
Oh lordy, pick a bale a day
Oh lordy, pick a bale of cotton
Oh lordy, pick a bale a day
Good gourd, don't you people know anything of labor history in the West?
Jump down turn around, pick a bale of cotton
Jump down turn around, pick a bale a day
Oh lordy, pick a bale of cotton
Oh lordy, pick a bale a day
Oh lordy, pick a bale of cotton
Oh lordy, pick a bale a day
Good gourd, don't you people know anything of labor history in the West?
dilettante
MIS
I thought my comment was pretty straightforward.
If cutting pay, eliminating benefits, lengthening working hours, and removing workplace safety are important to you, are you willing to be first in line?
I'm always amazed at the way people are able to look back over a hundred or two hundred years and see the benefits of unions, guilds, and work cooperatives. The same people then take a look at the decades near their own lifetimes and conclude "well, we don't need them anymore."
The Labor Union Movement in America. I'm sure U.K. and other examples can be found as easily.
Labor organization has never been popular in its own time, but we owe a great deal to its efforts nonetheless. Child labor, 12 hour days, indenture, and even slavery are not really that far in our past.
So my reply was in response to your remedy for the loss of jobs to cheap labor markets: work for less.
That has always been a recipe for disaster. We need another alternative.
If cutting pay, eliminating benefits, lengthening working hours, and removing workplace safety are important to you, are you willing to be first in line?
I'm always amazed at the way people are able to look back over a hundred or two hundred years and see the benefits of unions, guilds, and work cooperatives. The same people then take a look at the decades near their own lifetimes and conclude "well, we don't need them anymore."
The Labor Union Movement in America. I'm sure U.K. and other examples can be found as easily.
Labor organization has never been popular in its own time, but we owe a great deal to its efforts nonetheless. Child labor, 12 hour days, indenture, and even slavery are not really that far in our past.
So my reply was in response to your remedy for the loss of jobs to cheap labor markets: work for less.
That has always been a recipe for disaster. We need another alternative.
Labor organization (unions) were great for it's time, they got us to where we are, but have become greedy.
It's time to remove them and come up with an alternative. I know this will never happen in my lifetime. But, I do teach my kids to never join a union. Hopefully unions will eventually die and go away. IMO
I have worked for two companies that had unions go on strike. The strikes finicially ruined the companies and they were sold. The grocery store strikes hurt them also.
A lot of the people that striked no longer work those jobs.
Chris
It's time to remove them and come up with an alternative. I know this will never happen in my lifetime. But, I do teach my kids to never join a union. Hopefully unions will eventually die and go away. IMO
I have worked for two companies that had unions go on strike. The strikes finicially ruined the companies and they were sold. The grocery store strikes hurt them also.
A lot of the people that striked no longer work those jobs.
Chris
dilettante
MIS
Well I'm not trying to argue. I'd just like to hear other solutions besides "work for less." In my area even where unions have proposed substantial reductions the work has been taken out of the country.
That's why I'd like to hear other proposals that might help. What are some constructive solutions?
By the way, I read that Intel is expanding in Vietnam.
Intel in Vietnam
That's why I'd like to hear other proposals that might help. What are some constructive solutions?
By the way, I read that Intel is expanding in Vietnam.
Intel in Vietnam
dilettante
MIS
No, that's a red herring. Lots of jobs requiring education are being sent to low-wage nations leaving problems behind here:
Employment rates, college graduates, 1979-2003
Employment rates of young college graduates in three downturns
Unemployment rates in selected occupations
I was thinking more in terms of proposals like removing the tax advantages given to companies offshoring work. Or maybe some antitrust action to break up monopolies/duopolies so there is some true free-market competition going on.
Or maybe a brake on the obscene levels of profit-taking:
Labor compensation and corporate profits share of income growth during economic recoveries
Possibly even something to encourage some foreign investment in our job markets:
Jobs related to foreign ownership of companies in the United States
Employment rates, college graduates, 1979-2003
Employment rates of young college graduates in three downturns
Unemployment rates in selected occupations
I was thinking more in terms of proposals like removing the tax advantages given to companies offshoring work. Or maybe some antitrust action to break up monopolies/duopolies so there is some true free-market competition going on.
Or maybe a brake on the obscene levels of profit-taking:
Labor compensation and corporate profits share of income growth during economic recoveries
Possibly even something to encourage some foreign investment in our job markets:
Jobs related to foreign ownership of companies in the United States
With the out-of-control spending of Congress, who recently, for the fourth time in five years, increased the debt ceiling to almost $9 trillion, nothing will really matter before long.
President Reagan was aghast at the nation's debt in the mid-80's when the debt was around $2.5 trillion, and worked to reduce goverment spending which he saw as the greatest problem (not too few taxes). Now we are looking at $9 trillion, with the largest entitlement program in history in the prescription drug program for the elderly. Combined with the "No Child Left Behind" act in the Dept. of Education, with no direct relationship between money and increased learning.
Before long, education, tax increment financing, taxes, offshoring work, monopolies, anything won't matter because the debt will crush what is left of the economy.
President Reagan was aghast at the nation's debt in the mid-80's when the debt was around $2.5 trillion, and worked to reduce goverment spending which he saw as the greatest problem (not too few taxes). Now we are looking at $9 trillion, with the largest entitlement program in history in the prescription drug program for the elderly. Combined with the "No Child Left Behind" act in the Dept. of Education, with no direct relationship between money and increased learning.
Before long, education, tax increment financing, taxes, offshoring work, monopolies, anything won't matter because the debt will crush what is left of the economy.
Innovation & quality.
This is where the western world often leads. Many people say Japan is the leader, but it isn't, what Japan (and much of the Tiger ecomonies) are good at are spotting a good idea and making it happen.
At the end of the day, we have only ourselves to blame, there is no bigger power than consumer power.
If we choose to use companies that offshore, then why should they change?
If everyone said NO, I won't deal with you as you offshore your xxxxx then they co's will have no choice other to move back. In fact in the UK one large UK bank states in it's ad's that it only uses UK call centres as a selling point.
We're all guilty, just look where your phone, jeans, shoes, electonic componenets, car p[arts were made, chances are an asian compay is there.
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
This is where the western world often leads. Many people say Japan is the leader, but it isn't, what Japan (and much of the Tiger ecomonies) are good at are spotting a good idea and making it happen.
At the end of the day, we have only ourselves to blame, there is no bigger power than consumer power.
If we choose to use companies that offshore, then why should they change?
If everyone said NO, I won't deal with you as you offshore your xxxxx then they co's will have no choice other to move back. In fact in the UK one large UK bank states in it's ad's that it only uses UK call centres as a selling point.
We're all guilty, just look where your phone, jeans, shoes, electonic componenets, car p[arts were made, chances are an asian compay is there.
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
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