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Time to change our philosophy. 6

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Sleidia

Technical User
May 4, 2001
1,284
FR
Again, the stupid way human beings "take care" of their creation
has brought nothing more than an enormous waste.

The internet could have been a very useful/powerful tool to help
people share ideas/projects that could make a better place for us
to live, but instead, what we got is another useless (or misused)
media clogged with stubborn and meaningless advertisings that
nobody would even want to read.

Yes, I've enough to see web pages that have only 1/4 of their space
filled with contents (I mean worthy information). You only get
banners, bigger than ever who suck your bandwidth and that you are
forced to read sometimes (layered ads). Everybody focus on terrorists
nowadays, but there is another kind of terrorism. The kind of
terrorists who don't want you do become smarter. They hijack the
knowledge and the great unused potential that people own.

First, we had the promise of radio. Because It became driven by
profit, it has become like a big channel that broadcasts mainly
the same stuff with the same ridiculous spoken ads.
Then, we had TV and it became worse. You have to eat your CMs. In
Australian TV, you get CMs every 10 minutes! Here, in France, you
have to bear big clusters of CMs (during almost 10/15 minutes) at
peak hours.

And now, the same stuff is happening to the internet.
Wherever you go, you are welcomed with pop-ups, gigantic banner ads,
and sneaky layered ads that make you do the only one thing possible:
leave the place. Even scientific sites (newscientist.com, space.com,
wired.com, etc...) have been rotten by this gangrene. There was a time
when only porno websites had the arrogance to throw pop-ups at your face.
Now, go to netscape's home page and see what happen.

How stupid are people who think sites visitors will click on a
banner ad??? People who sell/design/insert those banners would never
click on one of them in their private browsing experience. How can
spammers think people would click on an unwanted mail from some unknown
small stupid company to get a longer penis??

Here is what the internet looks like:
A very vast desert with a few human beings wandering. In this desert,
the number of signs (the ads) is 10 000 times larger than the number
of wandering people found in this desert. Unfortunately for those people,
signroads are scarce. They only know the well too much frequented places
but will hardly find the rare oasis of knowledge and interactivity they
might look for. Ironically, the guardians of this desert (us, web designers
and developpers) are either as lost as the other wanderers or pleased to
mislead others for money (editors of websites clogged by ads and spammers).

I have many personal projects I'm planning to upload in the future.
Of course, you have to make some profit to pay your hosting service and
to be able to get some food for your body. But I'll try to do it the
clever way in respect toward people who visit the site. I'm the one who
believes that you don't have to use banners if people think that what you
offer is interesting enough. Web masters want to make money the easy way
without even thinking they have to offer a challenging service that people
would be happy to use.

I also think that people should see the internet more like a tool than
a media. And some of them should think the internet is art. Why?
Many rich (or not so rich) people can pay thousands or millions of dollars
for a painting. Why not incitate sponsors ("mecenes" in french) to offer
some money to the creator of websites that may help humankind to gain help
or knowledge?

Nowadays, within one second, people can send a message thousands kilometers away.
But ironically, the easiest the information will spread, the meaningless the
information will become. We have to fix this problem quickly because future
technologies will make our everyday life unbearable if we go on this way (think about
wearable screen displays).

A last example: in the metro of Paris, we recently had plenty of flat screens
dispatched everywhere. They broadcast always the same endless loop of CMs.
They will never try to share with people rare thoughts or visions of better
ways to do things.





My Work...
...and More...
 
Ok, i've started a new thread named "A zone without adds", lets put some practical suggestions there. I'll start on a website after work tonight. Also anyone that wants to start setting things up email me at addfree@corbis.co.nz and we'll get sume stuff sorted.

Ok, with that done, back to the debate!

sleipnir214,
you're right to say that nothing in this world is free, but equating that solely to money is an oversimplification. Money is a means to an ends, and should never be the focal point of any economic argument. To get to the point, we need to look at the productive forces - that it, the amount of effort, or labour, involved in making somehting. This is especially important when it comes to user pays, since it brings socal relations into the picture. A group of workers in a team can accomplish far more than if they worked individually, and it is this cooperative aspect of production which gives birth to civilisation. It is in this spirit of cooperation that essential services such as healthcare and public toilets, which benifit society as a whole (through less people to catch the flu from, and less drunkards pissing on your car) are paid for by the cooperative means of society and prevent that society from degenerating into savagery.
Capitalism in general tends to treat its subjects as ad individual producers, and pits one against another in a clear contridiction to the reality of a cooperative workplace - this can be seen in various units of scale, from competing for a promotion to global warfare, to the user pays versus progressive taxation debate.

So with this in mind, we need to ask, rather than how much will the add free zone cost, but rather how valuable will it be???

Sleidia,
I'm a bit aprehensive about your idea of a total ban on linking to comercial sites - lets not segrigate it too much, rather i think perhaps a ban on imaged links would suffice - that way we wouldn't prevent, say, linking to a referenced news article, or other information source.

One final point, to those that speak of hypocracy - i challenge anyone to go even a week without engaguing in consumerism. We live in a consumer society and we cannot avoid it. But that shouldn't stop us from trying to fight against it.

--cb
 
To Svanels:
------------
What you say is scary!
Again, a guy who can't imagine properly what a website without ads would look like!
That's crazy really. No ads = no images??
What a weird idea. Are encyclopedias full of text only? Do I have to be a star or to
sell something in order to have a picture of me on a site?? Do I have to be naked on
this picture?

The websites I daily access are and you know why? No ads and normal people to discuss, but that doesn't mean they totally have banned commercialism.
More of these sites should exist, but instead of reinventing the wheel, ask the Tecumseh group how they manage to stay alive. Of course you have to pay for that.

Best regards Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr
 


To all of you:

I've written a summary in the new thread created by Enigma174.
Also, there is a warning that is important I think.

Just go here:
thread656-330441 Sleipnir:
-------------
I know enough about how to settle and manage a virtual server,
how you can use the latest technology with the support of your
hosting company and I know the costs too.
So I found your remark very pessimistic in regard of budget.
 
Why did the dot.com economy failed?
- No bussiness plan
-No strategy
-No vision
-No mission
-No marketting strategy
-No target

and most of all no money

The evidence that money rules the world, you also have to attract good people to work for you.
Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr
 
I found your post to be a little unrealistic. While it might be nice if we didnt have popups and a banner here and there it's just not going to happen, nor should it. The internet is run my thousands of computers and millions of ppl and supporting companys throughout the world. The machines have to be paid for and ppl need their salaries.

The internet is as it was meant to be, a great source of information and it really has exceded itself, you can't complain because you get some extra information that you didnt ask for.

As for ppl not clicking on banner adds I can assure you they do, although of course not usually getting what they expect.

As for your zone with no adds, I think anyone who sits there and complains about things and does nothing is a waster, ppl need to start to change things themselves if they feel they need to be changed. But Majority Rules Overall.
 
Steve, ya got me :) The point though is that the beauty of a commercial system is that you're allowed to want more and also allowed to work to get try and get it.

The other point is that nothing is free. This web-ring is still being paid for by someone. It may not be advertisers, but it is someone. The developers of the sites are either doing it as a hobby on the side of their real jobs or they're being funded by someone else.

Here's a nother thought: Knowledge in a vacuum is useless and serves no purpose. Knowledge needs to be applied and used to create something before it has any value. The 'something' is either a product or service. If it has value, sooner or later someone will be selling 9t and someone else will be buying it. If the producer gives it away, there are still costs incurred and paid for so it only adds a layer of indirection.
Jeff
No matter how bad it is, it can always get worse ....
 
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