It's a depressing day when you wake up, and find out that your skills are no longer marketable. The IT world changes so fast with new fads that come and go. I have been working in the IT field for 7 years now, and specialized in Lotus Notes. A few years ago this skill was sought out by employers, and seen as a prized possesion. Today it's just considered another fad. Adpation is the key, but when your employer pigeon holes you for 7 yrs, you find adaption a tough road to travel. Adapt or die is the IT motto today. With outsourcing also becomming a big concern jobs will be harder to find here in the U.S. Adaption may no longer save us from the evil outsourcing monster. The key now is to develop a diverse skill set, like management. There will always be a need for project managers. The IT world is in trouble here in the U.S. How do we stop companies from taking our jobs away, and giving them to low income countries? I have nothing agianst those countries, but what happens to us when we end up on the street. I send this warning out to the next generation of IT. For now the current generation needs keep doing our job. Adapt and survive is the message to us now, even if that means changing what we love to do. It's a fragile time so keep safe, and above all keep programming. By the way if your wandering I am still programming, and am currently adapting to the next fad J2EE. Like to here evreybodys thoughts to this thread. Agree or Disagree?
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The Sky Is Falling
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J2EE is a fairly mature technology at this point. I would go ahead and learn it, but then immediately start looking to learn whatever's new at that time.
Chip H.
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Chip H.
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If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
I remember the fad to follow Lotus Notes, I have my reservations about others such as Citrix and Nortel (unless they get their act together) to name just a couple (BlackBerry i reckon is a director driven fad that will disappear as fast as it appeared as well)
but instinct told me to chase the biggest fish, M$ and Cisco to name 2. i'm not sure how long it will last, but they have proved to be ruthlessly efficent at staying ahead.
i can't properly comment on the development sector, but i believe is the biggest target for outsourcing and would avoid it, the same with manufactuer support positions, because of the lack of a need for an onsite presense.
you are going to get big names like HP, Dell, e.t.c. to outsource their support, much to the frequent frustration of thier customers. but in a private sector, try and win a very large contract off of a financial instition (for example) if your tender has that your support staff are located in India or where ever, and theres none or inadequate onsite presense in the SLA.
As long as the cost of living in places like the UK and US continues as it is, and it will with inflation. Outsourcing is with us for good.
The best positions, other than non-specific IT technical skilled positions such as management, are the onsite positions, the field engineering, or SME tech support, ones where need is greatest to have an actual presense at a location and not a voice on a phone.
And when the cost of living in India rises, so will the cost of hiring, and this will drive the outsourcers to places like Africa, as they emerge as the next continent to take up the technology baton (infact its probably already happening)
this is a finite process, but i shudder to think what happens next when the limit is reached. and it will be.
Would be interested in peoples various predictions or idea about where next?
Gurner
but instinct told me to chase the biggest fish, M$ and Cisco to name 2. i'm not sure how long it will last, but they have proved to be ruthlessly efficent at staying ahead.
i can't properly comment on the development sector, but i believe is the biggest target for outsourcing and would avoid it, the same with manufactuer support positions, because of the lack of a need for an onsite presense.
you are going to get big names like HP, Dell, e.t.c. to outsource their support, much to the frequent frustration of thier customers. but in a private sector, try and win a very large contract off of a financial instition (for example) if your tender has that your support staff are located in India or where ever, and theres none or inadequate onsite presense in the SLA.
As long as the cost of living in places like the UK and US continues as it is, and it will with inflation. Outsourcing is with us for good.
The best positions, other than non-specific IT technical skilled positions such as management, are the onsite positions, the field engineering, or SME tech support, ones where need is greatest to have an actual presense at a location and not a voice on a phone.
And when the cost of living in India rises, so will the cost of hiring, and this will drive the outsourcers to places like Africa, as they emerge as the next continent to take up the technology baton (infact its probably already happening)
this is a finite process, but i shudder to think what happens next when the limit is reached. and it will be.
Would be interested in peoples various predictions or idea about where next?
Gurner
When it comes to world economies, it always moves around.Take the UK
50 years ago, you bought a European car, beacuse they we're the best. Advantage West
The Orientals, then made more reliable cars, so everyone buys more Oriental cars, which had horrible interiors and lousy styling, but didn't let you down. Advantage East.
Europe now makes, fuel effiecient, realiable cars with good styling, back to Europe.
Last few years the east starts making better styled cars. All score draw!
Now to IT.
West domintates. At high cost, but rock solid.
East strikes back, cheap and cheerful, but poor service.
West moves east for low cost.
Customer complaints about service rocket, so now the choice.
West lowers it's prices or East improves service? The number of high paying jobs in IT are dwindling, however the cost are rising in the east. So maybe it will balance out, but not for a long time.
If we want our jobs to be saved, I'm sorry but we're going to have to pay for it. We want freephone numbers with 24hr support, but do we want to pay £10 a month for it? Nope didn't think so.
As a footnote, India is now outsourcing to China!
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
50 years ago, you bought a European car, beacuse they we're the best. Advantage West
The Orientals, then made more reliable cars, so everyone buys more Oriental cars, which had horrible interiors and lousy styling, but didn't let you down. Advantage East.
Europe now makes, fuel effiecient, realiable cars with good styling, back to Europe.
Last few years the east starts making better styled cars. All score draw!
Now to IT.
West domintates. At high cost, but rock solid.
East strikes back, cheap and cheerful, but poor service.
West moves east for low cost.
Customer complaints about service rocket, so now the choice.
West lowers it's prices or East improves service? The number of high paying jobs in IT are dwindling, however the cost are rising in the east. So maybe it will balance out, but not for a long time.
If we want our jobs to be saved, I'm sorry but we're going to have to pay for it. We want freephone numbers with 24hr support, but do we want to pay £10 a month for it? Nope didn't think so.
As a footnote, India is now outsourcing to China!
Stu..
Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004
I don't know - a close friend just landed a very nice position managing Notes and the transition to the current version for a multinational company. He had to relocate to do so - but that was why he was looking in the first place.
Those COBOL programmers that are still around make a pretty decent buck - if they are willing to move to the work.
I personally am willing to settle for less cash in order to maintain a "generalist" position that exposes me to most areas of IT.
Those COBOL programmers that are still around make a pretty decent buck - if they are willing to move to the work.
I personally am willing to settle for less cash in order to maintain a "generalist" position that exposes me to most areas of IT.
yes it certainly does exist, i'm sat back antiscipating an implosion by some organisations close to where i am, that outsourced their software development.
the mistakes that we discovered, testing the so called finished app, the developers in dubai made are going to make the UK firms that morgaged themselves on the app go pop, i'm very sure of that.
i'd like to go into more detail, but it would be to obvious.
in summary, a lack of understanding about what is required for an app to be thin client compatible and terminal server compatible. you can't make an app check for duplicate running processes and expect it to work on a (its biggest promised selling point) terminal server?
Gurner
the mistakes that we discovered, testing the so called finished app, the developers in dubai made are going to make the UK firms that morgaged themselves on the app go pop, i'm very sure of that.
i'd like to go into more detail, but it would be to obvious.
in summary, a lack of understanding about what is required for an app to be thin client compatible and terminal server compatible. you can't make an app check for duplicate running processes and expect it to work on a (its biggest promised selling point) terminal server?
Gurner
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- #10
Yes the outsourcing war is very real. Consider this philosophical point, and compare it to outsourcing. If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound? Well the same can be said for outsourcing. If it doesn't exist in your area of the world does it really exist. The answer is yes it does exist, you just may not be feeling the effects right now. More and more companies are beginning to see the economical values behind outsourcing. Companies don't have to answer to us the employees any more they are more concerned with their stockholders. It's an economic trend that will continue through our generation. Will it end? That's a question best left to the top executives. Is it a war we can't fight? Are we doomed to see our comapny resort to such greed driven motives? I don't have the answers, I can only say you have to adapt to the times. There was a time when the employees mattered, now were just like pawns in a chess match, expendable.
I too, can attest to it's existence. I have lost 2 jobs in the last 3 years due to work being outsourced to India. I still believe you get what you pay for though. I expect that work will eventually end up right back here someday, to be done correctly.
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- #13
yep to management, the offshoring movement is the best thing to happen since sliced bread, but to the workers it's the worst nightmare to come down since the unions cleaned everything up in the early 20th century.
Don't believe everything you read.
Don't believe everything you read.
So... outsourcing is bad. Where do you stand on insourcing? What about the Honda cars assembled in the USA? I am sure those (US) workers are grateful for the company (Honda) choosing to outsource from their original country (Japan).
Read the article in Fortune as I mentioned. The article covers many areas of the economy.
Read the article in Fortune as I mentioned. The article covers many areas of the economy.
I have a Master's degree and am strongly considering returning to school and enter an MBA program or another Master's degree program. There is even a glimmer of thought to possibly enter a PhD program which was my original intent when I was working on my Master's.
Education won't guarantee somebody will never be unemployed (there are no guarantees), but it does offer a better than average chance of being employed and earning a decent living.
Education won't guarantee somebody will never be unemployed (there are no guarantees), but it does offer a better than average chance of being employed and earning a decent living.
In 2003 I was laid off and I took a month off before looking for another job. I worked on my resume, read, and went to matinee's. Then I decided to look for a job. In fewer than a dozen-and-a-half mailed resumes over three weeks, I had a new job.
After some time there I decided it was time to move on to something else and sent one resume for a job that sounded interesting. That was the only resume sent and I was offered and accepted the job.
I believe my education was instrumental in being successful in my employment pursuits. That is why I also am considering an MBA or another Master's - to retain my ability to be employed in any economy and to have above average compensation for a financially sound future.
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