The Peter Principle 1

[BJCooperIT]

According to: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

Peter Principle

NOUN: The theory that employees within an organization will advance to their highest level of competence and then be promoted to and remain at a level at which they are incompetent.

I feel that this also applies to changing jobs. In today's IT economy one might accept employment, in a desparate moment, any employment that might place a talented person in a position in which they will be incompetent.

How can we recognize this potential for failure? Many of us get "butterflies" when tackling something new or unfamiliar, but often it is just a matter of getting busy and strengthening our skills as we work. We might have enough knowledge to claim a skill, but how to know if we should take the leap of faith that that skill is strong enough to for us to be competent? How can one avoid the "Peter Principal"?

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[chiph]

Promoting sub-average developers to be managers is a good example of the Peter Principle in action.

BTW, it's named after the author, Dr. Laurence Peter, and his book "The Peter Principle: Why things always go wrong".

Chip H.


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[BJCooperIT]

The Peter Principle Proven:

http://www.casact.org/pubs/actrev/aug97/peter.htm

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[Rhombus65]

How about the fact that in a lot of IT departments people are actully promoted because they are not exactly qualified. The IT environment is so riddled with job security that bosses actually look to promote peole who will be of no threat to them and sometimes the best way to do that is to promote someone who is not quite qualified so they have to continually run around in circles and not have any time to think about overthrowing the king.

Jim: A+, MCP W2k, Master Electrician

"The important thing is to not stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing..."
-Albert Einstein

 

[svanels]

If in the IT departments people are actualy promoted because of the lack of qualification, it is no wonder that the IT bussiness is in trouble.

Qualification is a relative subject and applies for the job.

I have 2 mechanics, same grade, same experience.
Mechanic A overhauls an engine in a day (if you give him all the parts)

Mechanic B also overhauls an engine, but in a week.
Mechanic B, understands the part manual, brings in a written list of needed parts.


Guess who will be promoted to foreman..
That doesn't necessarily mean that mechanic A is less qualified as a mechanic.
But he is surely not qualified to be a foreman.

The boss who promotes the less qualified person is diging his own grave, because he will have two jobs, his own and of the foreman....and will not have time to work on his own promotion.


Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[chiph]

I think a lot of unqualified people get promoted because it's felt that once they're in management, they can do less harm to the business.

A mistaken assumption, I know, I know. They should have been let go if they aren't able to do the job.

Chip H.


If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[svanels]

If you are in a company where it is difficult to get rid of someone (legal stuff etc..) then the standard approach is:

If you are good you will get a lot of work.

If you are bad you will get even more work/responsibilities, because you need to practice working.

If you allow a slacker, to sit and do nothing, who is laughing at the end of the month?

At the end, either you quit or start working (with mouth shut)

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

I know a lot of organisation promote bad coders/techies in the hope that if they are bad at that maybe they'll be better at management rolls. Saddly I've pointed out to those in higher management that they might as well try their luck with grabbing someone walking down the street in that management possition.

Management is a latteral move. I do know bad coders that where good managers. They'd be better if they knew a bit more of what those under them did, in terms of the "how", but it really isn't a requirement. The important thing is for them to know the "what" or to be able to ask and listen to the answer of the "what".

If you find yourself in a possition with a useless manager make sure you don't cover for them. Make sure you cover yourself. If you are asked to do something like work extra without recording your time because the project is slipping go back to your desk and email them saying you don't think it is a good idea, job stats will not be accurate if you do this thus making future project's metrics less reliable. If they push the issue raise it up to management over them. Point out you are not refusing to do the work but that you are refusing to fiddle with the numbers to make a not profitable project look profitable.

Just as managers should manage customer expectation workers should make sure they manage managers expectations. A manager that asks you to do what I meantioned above will not think twice of doing it agian if they can. A good manager can see a project sliding and tackle that as it comes. They might not get things done in time etc but they'll be upfront where they need to be. Hiding bad news doesn't make the bad news go away.



Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[BJCooperIT]

OK, now that we have complained a bit after having to deal with our feelings of jealousy or frustration...

What if you are the person they want to promote *or* what if you are considering taking a new job that entails new or different responsibilities? What precautions can we take to insure we do not "bite off more than we can chew"?

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

I don't take a job where I don't understand what I'm getting into. I've turned down plenty of jobs where I just thought I'd be to much out of my league. I get a clear understanding of what needs to be done, what their expectations are and what I'd have to learn to actually do the job. If I feel I can't do the job satisfactorily then I explain to them why I feel that way and wish them luck in finding a successful canidate. No point getting yourself into a situation you are almost sure you'll fail in.

I have had one position that said they would train me up in what they wanted to know when I explained why I felt I wouldn't be right for the position which made me feel good.

Hope I've been helpful,
Wayne Francis

If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[svanels]

"I don't take a job where I don't understand what I'm getting into."

That is the right answer, you have to know what are your limitations.

On the other hand, I love challenges.

Every two years I rewrite my CV, the first one I still have for comparison. Looking back at what I have done in my professional live, I would know when I am reaching my limit.


Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[ChrisHunt]

"Promoting sub-average developers to be managers is a good example of the Peter Principle in action."

Actually it isn't, it's an example of the Dilbert Principle: "incompetents are promoted to where they do the least harm - management" (or something like that, I don't have my copy handy). A wicked satire and occasionally true, but not the norm (in my experience).

The Peter Principle in action would be "Promoting good developers to be sub-average managers". This happens all the time, because it's very difficult to provide a career path for technical practitioners. Somebody who can write a C compiler in their sleep might be useless at directing a development team.

I know it's true in my case. I'm a die-hard code monkey, I cut code all day, I'm good at it and I love it. When I was edged towards leadership positions I hated it - I got by, but it wasn't really my skillset. The organisation I was in had no other career path- if you wanted to increase your salary you had to move away from doing the job towards telling other people to do it. My response was to become a freelance contractor - I get more money and nobody expects me to manage anybody!

-- Chris Hunt

http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk

http://www.napitalia.org.uk

http://www.leicesteryha.org.uk

 

[MasterRacker]

Partly it's a cultural thing. In America you're either "moving up the ladder" or stagnating. There's no middle ground. This causes a problem at the top. There're only so many CEO positions available and not all of us are cut out for it. (Most of the current people in CEO positions seem to be poor at it. ;-) ) Since the culture demands that we all keep climbing or be considered a slug or a failure, we're all going to end up over our heads at some point.


Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...

 

[sem]

Actually I don't beleive in this theory. My own experience shows that bad coders often get promotion, but not because they are bad coders, but due to their other skills invisible for good ones.
Loyalty and ability to avoid conflicts for a manager is the same essential requirement as competence for a developer. I agree that if you're the best in coding (design, architecturing etc.) in most cases you have no chance to become a manager, boith because of shortage of managerial skills and your own extreme value on your own place. Sometimes it annoys when somebody less competent than you tries to manage, but in many cases the reality is that he is "less competent in your area".
I suppose that this theory is just a way to indulge oneself, this is the main source of its popularity.
Of course both bad coders and bad managers exist and a girlfriend of your boss may have more chances to be promoted

Regards, Dima

http://seminihin.narod.ru

 

[BJCooperIT]

My motivation for asking this question is due to the fact that I am considering a position that is a bit out of my area of expertise. The job market for Oracle Forms development is abysmal in my area and my unemployment has run out. There is a project manager position for the state for which I qualify. Project management has always been a part of my job, but I have never had that as my sole function. The added wrinkle is I am not very familar with the paperwork and procedures required by the government. I worry that, by accepting if it is offered, I might make myself a victim of Peter's principle.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[sem]

A victim? A winner !
Isn't it the same as just getting the first job?

Regards, Dima

http://seminihin.narod.ru

 

[BJCooperIT]

Thanks Dima! Not quite the same. Fortunately, I know some of the people there. I have the experience to learn the application which is high profile. I certainly know the steps involved in analysing/developing an application. I have been a coder in the trenches for over 30 years, this is a big change.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[CajunCenturion]

There is a big difference between a job inside of someone's area of expertise which, when promoted to a level where the additional requirements and responsibility exceed their capacity (the Peter Principle), and a new job which is outside of the current area of expertise.

In either case, there is no way to know until after the fact when an objective determination can be made regarding the job requirements and personal capacity.

I however, have confidence that you have the abilities to get the job done, and wish you all the best, no matter which avenue you pursue.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BJCooperIT]

Thank you CajunCenturion. Actually, if I were a developer employed by the state, this position is the next one up on the managerial ladder, hence my reference.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[GlenJohnson]

I know of an IT manager who only knows Novell 4.0 in a W2K server network. The network evolved, while he did not. As to the people who know of the Peter Principle, we're dating ourselves. This was written back in the 70's if I remember that far back.

Glen A. Johnson
"Fall seven times, stand up eight."
Proverb

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