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The Education Scam 3

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drago762

Programmer
Dec 16, 2004
20
US
Interesting article...

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hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/I1.htm

The Education Scam

We have blindly believed several lies told to us by our colleges and universities which are about to hit our economy very hard. The first of these lies is the simple minded concept that, if everyone got a college degree, there wouldn't be any poverty because everyone would have a good paying job. The second lie is that you cannot make a good living unless you get a college education.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in education. I have two college degrees and the second one has made it very difficult for me to get work. I will explain this more later.

Why Would Our Colleges Lie To Us?

The reason our colleges and universities have lied to us is to make everyone want to go to college. It sounds great but I will explain the negative side of everyone going to college later. The main thing here is that they have lied to us for decades in order to increase the demand for a college education. If the demand for a college education is high enough, then they can increase tuitions which will generate additional revenues for colleges. Increased demand for a college education also meant an increased demand for college professors and administrative staff which drove up salaries for college professors and administrative staff. Basically, they lied to increase their income. It has worked because tuitions and salaries have increased over the last 30 or more years by hundreds of percentiles.

Will College Educations Eliminate Poverty?

The lie that everyone getting a college education will eliminate poverty is just too simple minded and out of touch with reality. From World War II until as far as we can reasonably forecast into the future, 2030, the percentage of jobs requiring a college education has not and will not change. It has and will remain that only 20% of the jobs on the market will require a college education. That means that 80% of the jobs don't require a college education. There are and will only be so many jobs for people with a college degree regardless of how many people get a college degree.

Common sense should tell you that, if 21% of the workers get a college education, 1% of the work force will be unable to get a job requiring a college education and will be over qualified for lower level jobs. They will not have a skill or trade and will be forced to take jobs in unskilled labor with hopes that they will some day be able to get a job with their college degree. Unfortunately, if they are out of their industry too long, their degree becomes "aged" and becomes useless. These people can find themselves stuck in unskilled labor and poverty.

This has already occurred. I began hearing about this in the early 1990's and have sense personally experienced it myself. After I got my Master of Business Administration in 1996, I have not been able to get a job with it. It seems that with my personal experience, I should be paid in the range of at least $40,000 to over $65,000 for general management. There are so many MBA graduates with no experience who can be hired for less that no one wants me.

In the interim, I obtained a job working for America Online as a phone technician making $7 per hour. I was amazed that over half of the employees working there had one or more college degrees and were only making $7 per hour. As I talked to them, I found that they were all having the same problem. I met one person who had two PhD's and was only making $7 per hour and was glad to have it. Remember that this was at the time that businesses were claiming it was so hard to find college graduates to hire so they could import cheap labor from other countries.

Even during the present "booming" economy where unemployment has "plunged" a "whopping" two tenths of one percent in one year, the problem persists. Are we being lied to by our government and media or what?

What this over education of our society is doing, is that businesses now have the luxury of not hiring more experienced and more expensive labor and hiring less experienced and cheaper labor. This means that older people are increasingly finding it tougher to get jobs. These "older" people are getting younger. It started out being people in their 40's and 50's and is now happening to people in their 30's. Soon, it will get tougher on people of all ages.

I also heard that this has reached a point to where businesses are now even willing to risk law suits by firing more experienced employees to hire less experienced and cheaper labor. The courts are permitting the businesses to get away with this because they are claiming that the people are not being fired because of their age but because they are more expensive to employ. Therefore, goes their logic, it is because of cost and not age. Yeah, right!

This problem has reached a point to where, in California alone, there are over 1,500 complaints being filed with the government of California per year. How many more are not even bothering to file a complaint? And this is at a time when the economy is booming and they can't find qualified labor? Yeah, right. You better sell me another bridge because I am not buying that one.

More and more of these college educated people are being forced to accept jobs in unskilled labor making less than $10 per hour. This problem is approaching epidemic proportions and it is getting much worse.


The Coming Epidemic

In the summer of 1999, I heard a statistic which made me shudder but the simple minded media think it is great. It seems that more than 65% of our high school graduates are enrolled in college. That means that anywhere from 35% to over 50% of our work force will have a college degree within the next five to six years. Ouch! That means that anywhere from at least 15% to over 35% of our work force will be unemployable and forced to accept unskilled labor jobs. Poverty will not disappear, it will become very well educated. This could crash our economy in the next five to ten years.

The colleges and universities better think about this. When college graduates are a dime a dozen, who will want a college education? The demand will reverse and colleges, professors, and administrative staff will go broke and get to join the rest of us in our unskilled labor jobs making less than $10 per hour.


The Big Scare

The second lie was a big scare designed to make people fearful of not having their children go to college. They did "studies" showing that there was an increasing economic gap between those who go to college and those who don't. These are rigged studies. What they did was put skilled labor with unskilled labor so that we could not see that skilled labor makes pretty good money. As a matter of fact, many people in skilled labor are making as much or more money than many people who have college degrees. They didn't want you to know that so you would think that the only way your children could have a chance was to get a college education. You were scammed!

The truth is that you can make very good money as skilled labor and many of our self made millionaires come from skilled labor. Have they ever told you this? Of course not, they want you to be afraid of not sending your children to college. We gotta keep those college salaries high.


So What Is Going To Happen?

First, it should be common sense that the salaries for college jobs will at least freeze for a long time and probably begin to decrease. Think about it, if you have more people qualified for a job than there are jobs, people will be willing to work for less just to have a job. The businesses know this and will let us bid the salaries down to get the job.

But another problem is developing. Where are we getting all of these college students from? They are people who would have gone into skilled labor. We are going to develop a shortage on skilled labor. That means, in order to get the job done, businesses are going to have to bid for the remaining skilled labor. This will increase salaries for skilled labor. Where are these businesses going to get the extra money for the skilled labor they need to produce their product? You know they wont take it from their profits. The only place they can take it from will be the salaries they would have paid to college graduates. The businesses must bid down the college graduates' salaries to increase the salaries for the skilled labor.

If I had children in high school today, I would encourage them to go to a trade school, learn a trade, get very good at that trade, start their own business hiring others to do that trade, and make millions.

 
Thanks for posting this. A lot of definite truth. That the tuition costs go up simply because there's an oversupply of people wanting degrees (high demand, high prices!). Then in the work force, there's so many people with degrees that the salary goes down (high supply, low prices!).

Like a guy I know once said, there's so many people going to college that it's like college is the new high school.

I know I definitely wish I never considered the kind of effort I put into getting a college degree. Besides, there's a low supply of people in trades, so your advice is very good IMO.
 
That is an interesting editorial, and the author makes some very good points, but I disagree with some of his positions.

==> The lie that everyone getting a college education will eliminate poverty.
I don’t agree with the author that colleges are telling this lie. The claim is not "college education will eliminate poverty" but "basic education is one of the pieces of solving poverty". I don’t think colleges are touting themselves as "basic" education. I think it’s quite the opposite. Admissions standards -- set by universities themselves -- are on the rise, thus making it more difficult and more demanding to enter into college.

The fifth and sixth paragraphs offer an opinion and tell a personal story to back that up. The fifth paragraph ends with "These people can find themselves stuck in unskilled labor and poverty". He goes on to say in the sixth paragraph that he is one of these people, ending with "There are so many MBA graduates with no experience who can be hired for less that no one wants me". Would he like us to believe that he would have been hired if he didn’t have the MBA? Without the MBA, I don’t think he would have even been considered for the job. Further, if we’re to accept his premise in the fifth paragraph, we should find this author stuck in un-skilled labor and poverty. Somehow, I don’t think that’s the case. Could it be that he used to education to walk down a different path? What does this author do now?

The author also stated that, "Increased demand for a college education also meant an increased demand for college professors and administrative staff which drove up salaries for college professors and administrative staff. Basically, they lied to increase their income". I again point out that admission standards are on the rise. Further, the author should also point out that the colleges are the ones who supply their own demand. College professors all have degrees.

I do agree and can sympathize with the author about age discrimination in the workplace, and he’s quite right about supply and demand, but that is not the fault of colleges. That is the nature of a capitalistic economy.

==> Therefore, goes their logic, it is because of cost and not age. Yeah, right!
Seems to me that the basic goal of any business is to maximize profit, in fact, public corporations have a legal obligation – fiduciary responsibility – to the stockholders. You do that two ways: increase revenue and decrease costs. As a general rule, younger is less experienced and cheaper, but that is not the fault of colleges. That’s life.

I think the author is right that only about 20% of the jobs require college degrees, and if you want to compete for those jobs, then you need to have a degree. It seems the author wants you to believe that having a college degree means you will “win the game”, when in reality, the college degree is the entry fee to “play the game”. We live in a competitive world.

==> If I had children in high school today, I would encourage them to go to a trade school, learn a trade, get very good at that trade, start their own business hiring others to do that trade, and make millions.
There is nothing wrong with that advice, but it’s not a quid pro quo either. 95% of all new businesses fail within the first five years. I wonder how many of those who do suceed with their business, will hire the most qualified person they find, at the cheapest rate.

What are the odds that this op-ed would have been written, so that we could read and discussit, had its author (Carl Cantrell) not been so well educated?

Good Luck
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As far as colleges raising tuition, I would agree that maybe the top 10-20 colleges are probably exorbitant, but I'm starting my education at a community college and am paying $39.50 per semester hour. I'll be transferring to a university in a few years, and paying a much higher cost.

It appears that this article is almost meant to steer potential students away from college. This is a real motivator for me. Last night was my very first college class. I graduated HS 20 years ago, and am going back to school so I have a piece of paper that says that I really do know what I claim to know. Experience only takes you so far, and I've learned that the hard way.

The absolute last thing I need is some well educated op-ed writer telling me that I'm contributing to poverty by getting an education.
 
==> Last night was my very first college class.
Well done Dollie, and, if I may be so bold, I'm proud of you. I wish you all the best.

Good Luck
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kHz,

Believe me, there is no ignorance here. I know exactly what I'm getting out of a full college education. It's the same thing I've learned independently over the last 20 years. I'm overqualified for many jobs because of my knowledge, but I don't have a degree to show for it. In my neck of the woods, not having the degree is holding me back in my career. I'm going to be able to test out of about 50% of the classes I'll be taking over the next few years, which is an added benefit and a time saver. I'll be able to get my engineering degree in about 4 years, and that's doing it part time while maintaining a full time job.

What I basically did was take all the reasons I'm going back to college and put them in a simplistic sentence that didn't convey why I'm really doing it. I didn't realize I was repeating a quote others have used probably a bit too often.

I'm usually a lot mouthier than that :)

As long as they don't see the fear hiding behind the bravado, I'm hoping I do as well as I believe I'm going to.

(and thank you thank you CC!!)

/Contributing to our nation's downfall by becoming edjamakated [smarty]
 
kHz said:
This oft quoted phrase displays an ignorance of attaining an education.

A piece of paper is a tangible representation of what someone has worked very hard for and a signifying document noting that a program was completed.




 
I'll put in my two cents...I was a teacher for 17 years. I did not get a master's degree for three reasons:
1) I didn't need a piece of paper to say I was a better teacher (or to spend 10K to get it).
2) Classes are taught generally by those who never set foot in a classroom.
3) The monetary difference wouldn't be worth it.

All my friends spent two to three years working on their master's degrees while I jumped into the computer field and started learning web design, graphic design, and video editing. During that time I was Teacher of the Year at my respective schools, nominated for District Teacher of the Year for my School System twice, and Art teacher of the Year for the entire state.
After getting their degrees and earning the extra $1500 a year they continue on. I pursued the computer track, becoming a district trainer and earning an extra $4000 a year teaching the teachers with the master degrees who teach the students...
I left teaching for a career in web design then into director of IT still with my BS. in Art Education but now with certs (with more on the way) making more than my teacher friends with Master's degrees.
A colleague has two sons both into computers. A discussion developed about a need for college degrees. One is working at Best Buy part time and is working towards his MCSE and the other has opted to try college for a year..

Times are a changing. I was taught that a college education was the key to success but I don't agree anymore.
 
I think scam is kind of harsh for the factors pointed out. The real education area that can be accused of scamming is the private school sector that is promising salaries after completion of their programs or certification training. As with the AOL situation, yes there are people with college education that are not working at the level a college grad should, but not all college grads are motivated, and many people don't realize that with a degree you do not have to concentrate on your degree field when job seaching. In fact, IMHO, I think that to many grads leave school expecting something to be handed to them and are not willing to pay their dues on a help desk for a few years because they don't have any computer experience. And the "Piece of Paper" phrase that everyone likes to take shots at; is important when it comes to salary negotiations and respect from your educated peers. (No my peers do not disrespect me because I came up through the ropes the hard way.It will just make me feel that I have it and don't put myself in a posistion where they start passing me 5yrs from now). Got my AAS 10yrs ago, now in school for my bachelors in the evenings. And I want be contributing to poverty either.

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
 
Dollie, are you sure you can test out of 50% of your classes? There is a limit to the number of classes that one can CLEP, and it isn't anywhere near half.

imedesign, teachers are public servants, paid by tax dollars, as you are aware. Do not confuse private industry pay with civil service pay. Also:

1) "I didn't need a piece of paper to say I was a better teacher".
This quote isn't entirely accurate. Think of the improvement you may have had in measurement and evaluation if you did have a graduate class in the subject.

2) "Classes are taught generally by those who never set foot in a classroom."
All of my former graduate professors in education (PhD's and EdD's) were all former teachers and administrators in public schools.

RiverGuy, "A piece of paper is a tangible representation of what someone has worked very hard for and a signifying document noting that a program was completed" No, that isn't what it represents.

What perception are you implying to your children about the value of an education? I feel sorry for anyone who thinks it is "just a piece of paper" and that they have already learned by themselves over the years.

I am bowing out of this discussion.
 
There are quite a few people with out degrees that make more than their peers with degrees. That number is small and a product of the "Right Time Right Place" situation. The majority is not as fortunate.

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
 
kHz - Each school sets up its own CLEP policy, so the limit is up to the individual school. Further, there are other credit for prior learning programs that may be in play, unrelated to the CLEP program. Without knowing the school, and which programs are in play, we have no way of knowing what Dollie may or may not be able to do.

The problem with the "I didn't need a piece of paper to say I was a better teacher" thinking is that you don't know what you would be comparing yourself to. You're trying to compare an apple with what an apple might have been had something else happened. You only know what you are, and in imeldesign's situation, that is, without a doubt, one very fine teacher. But you don't know how much better you might have been with a Master's degree. You said you were nominated for the higher awards, but you didn't indicate whether or not you won? Does it matter? It's possible that you're already as good as you can be, and in that case, further education will serve no purpose. However, I've never met such a person. Or, you may be satisified with what you are, and again, further education will serve no purpose. Sometimes, I think I fit that description, but tomorrow is another day.

Anyone can say "I didn't need a piece of paper to get where I am", and that is completely true. It is also true that not having that piece of paper limited you to just what you are. Who knows?

No one -- not me, not you, nor anyone else -- is qualified to judge the value of something that they don't have.

==> A piece of paper is a tangible representation of what someone has worked very hard for and a signifying document noting that a program was completed
That's a true statement, whether it's an MCP certificate, or a Ph.D. diploma. In and of itself, that's all it means. However, the impact of that piece of paper, and what it represents, lies in the ending phrase - 'a program was completed'. What's the program? If the program is MCP training, then it has very little impact for me. On the other hand, if the program is a Master's degree from some state U., there is considerable more impact, and in turn value.

Good Luck
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To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
 
When I discussed testing out of classes with my advisor, and we went through the list of the classes needed to attain an AS in the college transfer program, he never mentioned any type of limitation. I have to complete 64 credit hours (all of them 100% transferrable to a major university), and of those 64, the amount I can test out of is 30 hours. This will also allow me to fit in a few ethics and biz law classes to help with my BA minor.

However, I've been classified as "deficient" in math. In order to get an engineering degree, I've got to take twice as many math courses to get up to the same level as my peers. I'll actually have more credit hours when I get the AS degree, but approximately 16 of them are not transferrable because they are not college level.

While many major employers may not look at degrees or certificates anymore, mine does and I'm going to need that degree to take me where I need and want to go. I might be earning more money than my peers are right now, but I know I can make more, it's dangling in front of my nose.

I just wish I had done this 20 years ago.
 
Me too, Dollie. This studying would have been easier 20yrs ago. The number of courses you can clep out of are also based on the accreditation of the school. At least that is what my counselor told me at the University of Phoenix. Maybe I misunderstood and that is a school to school guideline. Don't be misled by one rant. Education pays and it always will...

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
 
Your advisor may not have mentioned any limit, however, you should read the university policy on CLEP and/or other credit-by-exam methods as they apply to your situation. Maximum hours, upper-level/lower-level courses test-out, grades, comparable courses, eligibilty, etc., are all included in the university policy.
 
Now that my curiosity is up, I'll give the advisor a call. I'll post back when I hear something!
 
Just to stir it up some more, ha ha!

I have always considered my "Higher Education" (2 years at college for Computer/Telecommunication Technician) to be more of a licence to learn. Yes, I learned the basics, but in this line of work the experience factor is huge.

I think a lot of employers just want to see that potenial new hires have at least put out the effort to become trained in their chosen line of work. With completing a degree, you show your ability to learn.

There are other factors employers look for when hiring that will never come from a college or university. Some of those are personality, attitude, ability to handle stress, productivity, leadership, Manufacturer certifications (very big in Telecom), etc... Perhaps the original author or the many college grads that are TOO qualified to get a job don't show these things in a positive way, I SAY THAT TOUNGE IN CHEEK!


 
Many European nations have less kids going to college and going into trades. It has been said that German high school is equal to American college. It doesn't help that the USA has the worst public schools in the world.

Plumbing, for example, is one job that doesn't require college. It also can't be shipped off to India or China.

I worked for Big Brothers Big Sisters for two years and was probably the only person in the office without a college degree. I probably got paid more than most. There are social workers with masters degrees that get less than $30,00 per year, for example. I was the computer guy.

 
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