Sticker shock for CM R5 upgrade - questions....

[phoneguy01]

Ok folks, help me out here. It seems the $219,000 software upgrade only (ok,
well adding a SES server too but that's only about $5k) is quite a shock to
management. I keep hearing the "see we should've gone with Cisco" thing a lot
these days. Not sure how to respond to managers that get shocked over the
upgrade price because I have no installed Cisco Call Manager solution of an
equal size to compare real costs...you know, the like the real total cost of
ownership. I keep hearing how much cheaper the Cisco upgrades are.

We've got about 9 locations connected to a core site that has a CM 3.1 on S8710.
Again the price quoted was only to upgrade all our licenses to R5...slightly
less than 3,000 licenses and 300 call center licenses.

1. Is that price reasonable to you?
2. Anyone out there have any experience with a similar sized Cisco Call
Manager? If so, how do the real costs compare between Avaya and Cisco? I know
for example you need (sometimes) many Cisco servers to provide all the features
and functions a single Avaya CM server can provide and surely that has to drive
up the cost initially and over time?

I have no way to refute the Cisco propaganda that their stuff is less expensive
and still provides all the features and functions we need. Can you give me your
stories if you have one?

If Cisco's solution really is much less expensive and provides for the most part the same functionality, I'm ok with that. It is what it is. To me, it just seems inconceivable though that this could be the case. Especially given that I understand that it takes many more Cisco servers to provide the various features and functions we need...from sophisticated call center functions to offsite call coverage/forwarding, etc, etc.

Thanks!

 

[AvayaTier3]

I don't see a problem. Get rid of 2 managers and you have a new phone system.

A great teacher, does not provide answers, but methods to teach others "How and where to find the answers"

bsh

35 years Bell, AT&T, Lucent, Avaya
Tier 3 for 25 years and counting

http://bshtele.com

 

[Mitch672]

Well, the killer for you is "3,000 licenses, and 300 call center users", both of these are BIG BIG Money to upgrade, especially if you are talking about a multiple version upgrade. Also, software support is now required, and is no longer optional.


Mitch

AVAYA Certified Expert

 

[phoneguy01]

What I really need is someone that has seen a similar sized Cisco install and what the costs look like on a system like that. Right now I just keep hearing Cisco is cheaper...but how so? They might not be comparing apples to apples.

 

[tlpeter]

If Cisco is cheaper then it is because it can not do the same as Avaya can do and not even mentioning how much better they do !

ACA - Implement IP Office
ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Implement IP Telephony
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[SloTCMS30]

Phoneguy01,

I feel your pain, I just upgraded my switch from 3.1 to 5.1 enterprise... $$$$ I too hear how cheap Cisco is. My response "Rubbish"... try this link on another forum:

http://www.pbxtech.info/definity_servers/2828-ip_telephony_avaya_vs_cisco.html

Hope this doesn't step on any toes here...

“Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for.”

- Epicurus

 

[busydisconnect]

We are about to face the same issue. My manager just asked to get a quote for upgrading on 3.1 to a 5.1.

I'll let you know what our quote is. However we will need fewer license then you do. We have 1500 and 150 call center agents.

We do have another company we recently purchased who uses an all Cisco platform, they are always having issues. When the want to add features on the Cisco PBX to mirror some of the funtions our Avaya CM does, and the cost to do is much higher.

We are even thinking about out removing the Cisco switch and replacing the locations with Avaya Media Gateways.

Lack of Planning On Your Part Does Not Constitute an Emergency On My MINE!

 

[mikeydidit]

I remembered seeing a couple of other threads that may help you guys out.

thread690-1530520

thread690-1325765


I did a search at the top of the page to find these. A lot of good points have been made looking back at these.

And yes, it does get pricey adding the call center applications, but in the Avaya world, "they work". So i guess you get what you pay for.

Imagine replacing most of your cabling infrastructure, every set, and all of your telephone/network equipment to get Cisco to work.

And that will save you money how?? Just my thoughts.

"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890-1969), Inaugural Address, January 20, 1953

For the best response to a question, read faq690-6594

 

[lopes1211]

2000 phones even at $200e would be $400K assuming Cisco gave all of the hardware, software, install for free (not!!).

Everyone wants everything cheaper these days but switching platforms for $500K~$1M is not going to be cheaper than a $219K upgrade. Cisco vs Avaya could be a valid conversation for a new site, not a 3000 station upgrade. It's too late for them to start that discussion now.

-CL

 

[Midstream]

Check out your software entitlements as well. I think you're going to get some vastly expanded mobility licenses and UC entitlements with 5.1

 

[simreal]

I have worked with both systems for the past 4 years and I can honestly say that we have spent close to $0 on the Cisco.

Of course the reason is because the upgrades are extremely cumberson to install youself and the risk is great. If you mess up an upgrade on the Cisco reload the server and you start from scratch. If you mess up an upgrade on the Avaya you reboot to the origonal patition and try again.

We just requested a quote to upgrade our Call manager from 4.2 to 6.x. The quote was in the $50k range. The upgrade is free .. the quote was the labor charges for someone to perform the upgrade.

Cisco does not offer the same features and the features they do offer are either troublesome to configure and/or don't work as well as the coresponding Avaya features.

Avaya offers best in class PBX and ACD functionality.

Yes ... unfortunately you pay for it.

 

[phoneguy01]

I don't think there's any real chance Cisco will displace Avaya where I work, but I was just hoping to find some more info to help ease their minds when it comes to paying big money for an upgrade just to the licenses. In the long run R5 will be awesome and very good for us. For each license you buy, you get a license for the desk phone, softphone, thin client (web based) softphone, EC500, etc. In the past you had to pay separately for all that...now you get one of everything for each license