Speak English.... 21

[snootalope]

Wow, I don't know about you all, but I'm SICK of talking to tech support people who can't speak a darn bit of good english.

I spend a reasonable amount of time on the phone with different support teams and every single one of them from Arcserve to Microsoft Windows 2003 have moved all their support stuff out of the country (USA) and into the middle of places where people can barely pronounce the word Windows.. How the heck are we supposed to get something done when we can't even understand what they're telling us.

I've been playing phone tag with one company for three weeks because everytime they leave me a message and tell me to email them something for a particular support case, I CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR SAYING WHEN THEY SPELL OUT THE EMAIL ADDRESS!!! Of course, when i call back, i get someone who can even pronounce my 5 letter name, and they can't seem to reach the tech who just called me 5 minutes before...

Anyway.. I just had to vent.

If you ask me, IT is going the way of whatever is cheapest is best. It's BS and not customer friendly at all!! If I call the United States support number, I want to talk to someone who's from the United States!!!

 

[jsteph]

If USA is The best at everything, why do they make such crap cars?

Read "The Reckoning" by David Halberstam.
This book--though written around 20 years ago--is still timely. The reasons it points out for Detroit's failure (the 70's and 80's post energy-crisis loss of market share to Japan) then are largely the same today.

It's a very interesting read with some excellent history and insight into both the Japanese auto industry and Detroit.

And I was very "pro-american" then, harping about unfair trade policys that hurt Detroit, the mis-representing of 'country of origin' on parts by Japan, etc. Those things and others certainly hurt Detroit and were unfair--but instead of tooling up to build a better car, Detroit complained and lobbied and gave out huge bonuses to Roger, et. al., but never really fully embraced the quality issue.

I drive a new Sonata now, after 2 Tauruses (Tauri?), a Sable, and a Tempo. I chose the Sonata over the Ford 500. The 500 is a great car, but the Sonata beat it in most categories--both on paper and subjectively. Most importantly though, I still don't trust Ford to really stand behind that car the way Hyundai proactively does with the 10/100,000 warranty.
--Jim

 

[philhege]

jsteph, I looked at the Five Hundred, also, but I believe the only vehicle that should have a CVT is a snowmobile. US $5K premium for a conventional transmission? No sale.

The wife's 86 Nissan SEV6 lasted twenty years and 220K miles. What a bulletproof vehicle that was.

I agree with gbaughma about the planned obsolescence bit. How can they make any money if their products last? I think the manufacturers subsidize the use of salt on roadways, too ;^) It's impossible to find a car around here over five years old without some rust.

OK, I think we're totally OT now.



Phil Hegedusich
Senior Programmer/Analyst
IIMAK

http://www.iimak.com

-----------
I'll have the roast duck with the mango salsa.

 

[CBasicAsslember]

Explain to me why I had a 1982 Honda Civic that got me 40 MPG, and 25 years later, I have a Jeep that only gets me 17?

How much did the Civic weigh relative to a Jeep? That might give you a clue since the MPG is closely related to the vehicle weight. You might be wondering why the 07 Civic is still getting 40 MPG.

You mean to tell me that in 25 years, we haven't figured out how to make a more efficient engine? Of *COURSE* we have!

Marginally more efficient. Vehicle weight is still the major factor that effects mileage. Why is the 07 Civic is still getting only 40 MPG?

But the oil companies don't want us to have them.... because then we'd buy less gasoline.

And what does this have to do with a car company? If a car company came up with an engine that was twice as efficient they would have a tremendous competitive advantage. IOW, what an oil company would like has little to do with the technology used to make cars.

 

[gurner]

I agree with gbaughma about the planned obsolescence bit. How can they make any money if their products last?

There is a very strong argument about the use of planned obsolescence, (long 'em or hate 'em) it takes us back to Windows XP and Vista, many posts on those two

The long and short of it equates these two OS's to an '02 Civic and an '07 Civic, along the sames lines of planned obsolescence, basically.

(kinda pointed the FP back in the right way?)

Gurner

 

[CBasicAsslember]

I agree with gbaughma about the planned obsolescence bit. How can they make any money if their products last?

I have a hammer that is well over 25 years old and Tru-Value is still in business (they still sell hammers). I have a table saw that is 20 years old and Delta is still in business.

The term "planned obsolescence" is just design life with a negative connotation. The economic reality is increasing 'design life' also increases costs. At some point the cost of increasing the 'design life' exceeds the cost of replacement.

 

[Sympology]

Many things are designed to last, however, marketing people dilberately run down old products.
You must buy xyz because yours is soooo useless.

My pc is an Athlon 1800+
60 gig drive
768gb Ram

I could upgrade, but why? Does the job and I don't "Need" more memory, I dont "Need" to run 95 games at the same time (in fact I tend to prefer older games).

Kinda back to the subject, there are advantages to a high number of Indian It jobs, the training is so much cheaper. When I was sideling in networking, to take a hefty Cisco course
Price:
UK approx £1500 just for the course & lunch
India: £1600 for course, flights, 4* hotel, all meals.

Now some people may bleat how it's taking jobs from the UK. My answer would simply be, does it cost say £1500 / person to run this course?
I find it hard to belive that, with 10 people that it cost £15,000 / week to run this course. If they cut costs to say maybe even £800 - £1000 it would make a huge dent. However this is not the western way.
I could name a very large UK comany that went bust, due to poor management & high wage costs. The Unions got involved and constantly demanded ever increasing wages, until they completely priced themselves out of the market.
Think it of this way.
Do you buy a pc / laptop / service / anything because of where the support is based or on cost - performance?
To maintain the best ratio, cost are cut somewhere and support is an easy target.

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[gurner]

woops, cut my self off prematurely, was equating the 2 examples of planned obsolecence in the 2 industries, but neglected to mention i think it is counterproductive not just on costs but on customer loyalty too, so they all lose out in the long run.

But the top down only see the immediate returns, and the bean counters cook the figures to make it look better.

Best example i ever saw was in my last place, the MD was talking about his Finance Director, and said, i quote

He's great, he is, give him a figure, and he'll make the books reflect it

I refer back to the same place that nearly shot itself in the face by outsourcing to india.

Gurner

 

[gurner]

Time will tell how much this is actually being adopted

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6353491.stm

Gurner

 

[Sympology]

Having had the misfortune to deal with "a bright colour" Broadband over the last few months on a (still) unsolved issue.
Here's my experience.
The indian call centre is under manned. The staff often do not understand the issue and you end up going over completely unrelated issues (resetting your wireless connection, although 4 devices connect to the router / modem no problem). However, they have ALWAYS been polite and well spoken.
The other day I called during the day and got Customer Diservice. The UK based guy was rude, obnoxious, arrogant and downright unhelpful. So much so, I'm raising official complaint to several bodies.
So give me India anyday.

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[dgrewe]

I use the India support thing for Fun, Like Jeff Foxworthy said about the "Designated Driver, If your it, At least have fun doing it, Like Dropping them off at the wrong house, Like thier bosses."

Well I like calling up computer companies the have move thier support to India and have them start building a custom monster computer server and 10 supper work stations for a fake company. I get the server up to 20k and the work stations up to 2k. Then ask about SUPPORT. When they say India, I cancel the order.


David W. Grewe Dave

 

[Opieo]

Rofl, priceless.
I think I shall have to do that sometime, its such a beautiful idea. Love doing stuff like that.

~
Give a man some fire, he will be warm for a day, Set a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.

 

[medic]

I really like the way TT members handle [somewhat] offensive remarks with civility and tolerance. It makes me feel comfortable throwing in this funny saying:

Heaven is when you have an American Salary, a British home, Chinese food, a German Car, and a Latin wife.

Hell is when you have an American car, a British wife, a Chinese home, German food, and a Latin salary

 

[gurner]

lol, as a brit i'd have to disagree with the 2nd part of hell.

woulda googled some examples of how wrong that is, but it'll only descend into a my dads harder than your dad, my cars better than yours, face off, ha

Gurner

 

[medic]

lol, as a brit i'd have to disagree with the 2nd part of hell...

Incidentally, I myself is curious about the reason how that fell under that category.

 

[philhege]

The way I heard it, Hell has British food.

Y'all can sort out the rest.

 

[Sympology]

Surely Hell has US food !

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[gurner]

lol, hell is US food (mainland US i'd say, i.e. not New York)

British Food is non-existent compared to the boiled to death stuff of 30+ years ago, theres English Breakfast, Sausage, Egg, Fried bread e.t.c. and thats about it now.

Everything else is a continental dish, Indian, or Bangladeshi if you wanna get technical Italian, Chinese e.t.c. its as diverse as looking for a 'restaurant' in New York (emphasised that part as you are rather spoilt for choice by just that word in NYC and London especially)


Gurner

 

[jimbojimbo]

What I have started doing on a routine basis is that when I get someone I can't understand I demand to talk to their supervisor. Once the supervisor is on the phone I demand to talk to someone in the US.

If everyone did this there would be no outsourced support.


PS: I was told the only thing they serve in hell is a weenie roast.

James Middleton
ACSCI/ACSCD/MCSE
Xeta Technologies
jim.middleton@xeta.com

 

[dilettante]

I think you're all missing the point.

While vendors make promises of support for marketing reasons, they want to pay as little as legally posible to meet their obligation and they have little incentive to make it a pleasant experience for you. You'd just use it more, thus cutting further into corporate profits. The control on this should be competition, but weak and unenforced anti-trust regulations result in mergers that gradually eliminate competition as a factor.

 

[vbSun]

Once again, I am not sure whether I will generalize bad support as outsourced. Have one of us tried calling British Gas lately?