Small Business Copier Service Agreements 2

[kjv1611]

If anyone can suggest a better forum, I'll try posting there instead. Frankly, for this particular question, I don't think there is a good specific forum, and I kinda doubted there would be.

At our church, we've been leasing copiers through a couple of different Copier Suppliers/Servicers.

My question is this: If we were to buy a copier, is it possible that one of these companies might provide a service contract with no lease?

Or can anyone point me in the direction of some good research along these lines?

I'm curious about what I can found in regards to all of this, currently, b/c we're coming to the end of our current lease in 4 months, and we've already had one company try to sell us on their deal.

Any thoughts/references/suggestions would be appreciated.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[cckens]

Sure, but you'd pay for the service contract on a per impression basis. We've had a copier for 6 years and we can still get a contract for service. Problem is, year after year, the price can go up based on parts costs (they get harder to find or some such bollock).

In short, it is very possible. In San Diego, CA , I've used LaserSaver and IKON support. Don't really know about other companies.

Ken

"cckens is a nick... why the H-E- double-hockey-sticks am I using a nick for a name? Am I afraid of who I am?"
-me
"...don't know why, but I think of chickens when I see that nick...maybe even choking chickens???"
-Tony (wahnula)

 

[edfair]

Yeah, it is a standard practice. There are repair contracts, supply contracts, and combination contracts covering both. As mentioned, prices depend on usage but you should be able to estimate pretty close in order to not buy too much or to go over. You'll normally get a call each month for the copy count.

My info is a couple of years out of date, but this was the procedure at a copier & suppies customer of mine.

You'll want to use a medium sized company. Large ones get that way by offering "soup to nuts" type service and charging for it. Small ones generally are not able to afford the inventory needed to match the larger companies.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[kjv1611]

Thanks for the advice so far.

Anybody know of any sort of general ranges on prices for service and/or copier leases? Or is there not any way to guestimate what they SHOULD be? Perhaps some sort of formula based on copies per minute, estimated required service calls, price/value of machine, etc...

Surely there's some sort of run of the mill formula?

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[kjv1611]

Here's another question as a for instance.

Let's say we were to buy this printer:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828113009

Would a service company still "service" that type of printer/copier, or is that getting too much at the "consumer" level of machine that they wouldn't bother with?

Or is there any "level" of printer/copier for which you typically cannot get a service contract?

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[edfair]

Lease, figure full retail cost paid out over 24 months plus service, plus consumables.
Service, 1% to 1.5% of full retail cost per month.
Consumables, cost of the recurring disposable parts used based on the estimated copies plus a fudge factor.

You generally can get service on the cheaper ones but the manufacturers use third party service, which can be spotty, and have been known to discontinue parts availability which leaves the owner twisting in the wind.

You can usually get maintenance contracts from members of the warranty service network for those machines that are in commercial use but that puts you at risk since the warranty service providers switch around a bit.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[kjv1611]

Thanks a ton, edfair!

I've got some more thinking and digging to do.

By the way, does anyone know if there is a particular feature such as a "no jam" feature?

The offer that was proposed to us was of a really nice machine, it seems. It's the Toshiba e-Studio 3511. The salesman demo'ed it to our pastor and secretary, and showed how even a crumpled-up or crinkled-up piece of paper still came through altogether.

Or is that just something standard on new machines?

I couldn't find it mentioned in the brochure I downloaded for that model.

---------------------
Back to main topic - costs. What should consumables include? The drum and toner? Or should it also include some other certain replaceable parts? Generally is all I'm looking for, as I'm sure there can be differences between servicers, machines, and contracts.



--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[cckens]

Consumables are generally considered in the cost of service contracts for the larger machines.
IKON provided service for our 2 HP printers (y'know, the LJ4000 series, the workhorses). They included the parts and labor time for the maintenance kits and serviced the machine periodically (prevenative maintenance). We were on the hook for the toner.
Copiers are generally covered for all consumables including toner (don't know about the smaller SOHO devices). This includes the drum, fuser array, document feeder, feed rollers, anything that might wear out over time.

Ken

"cckens is a nick... why the H-E- double-hockey-sticks am I using a nick for a name? Am I afraid of who I am?"
-me
"...don't know why, but I think of chickens when I see that nick...maybe even choking chickens???"
-Tony (wahnula)

 

[kjv1611]

Thanks for the additional info. Guess I just never really thought about what all is really involved with a copier at this level of productivity.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[cckens]

Neither did I until I ran an IT department.
There is bliss in ignorance, except when you are in charge.

Ken

"cckens is a nick... why the H-E- double-hockey-sticks am I using a nick for a name? Am I afraid of who I am?"
-me
"...don't know why, but I think of chickens when I see that nick...maybe even choking chickens???"
-Tony (wahnula)

 

[wahnula]

There's another school of thought about this class of machine...that they're so inexpensive that using them until they no longer work (changing consumables yourself, at a reduced cost) and then replacing them is often a wiser investment than paying for a service plan. When talking about a $2000 copier, then you consider a service plan, or if you have a fleet of machines that are difficult to maintain.

Modern electronics are marvels, it seems they either work for a long time or they break within the warranty period. Most companies will swap out your machine with a refurb within the warranty, some overnight.

As for brand, I've had great experience with HP printers, Canon & Xerox copiers. Both copiers are (were) $1000+ when new and get service on occasion, annual service for my Xerox engineering copier, and as-needed service for my Canon copier.

My HP printers just need cartridge changes, and the cost of machines was only $400 apiece, so if something major goes wrong out they go. I had nothing but problems with my (2) Konica/Minolta laser copiers, I will never buy that brand again. We have a Brother Fax machine, they seem to be good, but at $200 for the whole unit it makes no sense to call out a tech.

My whole point is that you should weigh the cost pf replacement against the cost for ongoing service. No argument that ongoing service is necessary for high dollar machinery, but for inexpensive office machines I think of it as an "extended warranty", which is betting the manufacturer that their warranty is not good enough.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[kjv1611]

Yeah, I've been sort of wondering/thinking if we would be better off just buying a cheaper unit (even 2, so have a spare on hand), and not even mess with all the service agreement stuff.

The one con that has been mentioned that seems to put fear in everyone is having to do the service/repair stuff ourselves.

I know I could handle any service/repairs necessary, but it wouldn't be the same day of a malfunction all the time.

Our usage is about 1500 or 1700 pages per month max.

So I think we're maybe border-line between needing cheapies and needing one of those big honking machines.

Also, we never print anything but black and white at the church - at least so far, so almost anything would do with that.

The sort/staple options are necessary sometimes, at least once per month.

I don't have the time to even think about this one at the moment. Perhaps I'll be able to revisit after a couple of weeks, and look in depth again.

Here's another question: One person mentioned Property Taxes? When do printers/copiers get to the point where you have to be concerned with property taxes, or is this only something with leasing companies?

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[Xippa]

Copier contract structure is critical to getting "what you bargained for". More and more we are seeing copier and printer contracts which bundle impressions. These "leases" need to be understood by the customer. 100% customer centric model is designed to level the playing field.

 

[edfair]

Property taxes are not a big issue. Theoretically you are supposed to let the tax people know each year what you have acquired and what you have disposed of but I would ignore it if you buy.

If you lease, the taxes are charged against the leasing company and sometimes the taxing people check to make sure that you have listed the leased equipment on your property tax return.

Depending on your location, property taxes may not apply. Church property is usually exempt, but since the copier isn't used in services it may be taxable.

RE: doing the repair stuff yourself. Most would be done on a per call rate. All copier companies have per call rates. Some higher than others. You go on the end of the call list and take the risk of having a higher than average number of calls. With computers, when I was more active, I told the customers the advantages and disadvantatges. A lease or maintenance contract is an insurance policy. Do you know of any insurance company that is in business to lose money. Like insurance's "buy term, invest the rest" I suggested they buy, otherwise you'll be paying me forever, and go on T&M for the same reason. But if you really want an insurance policy, I'm your agent.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[kjv1611]

Thanks for all the valuable input, edfair, and everyone else of course. Thankfully, I've got a couple of CPAs there at the church who are extremely involved in this one, and they really know their stuff when it comes to contracts, taxes, and all of that.

I'm thankful we've got a couple of people like that in the church.

Xippa, I noticed from your website that you're a printer/copier vendor, yourself. I'm assuming you're regional only to the area where you're at in Washington. Do you know off hand of any good vendors in the Greenville, SC area, by chance, or else do you have what you would call a best source or method for finding one?

These "leases" need to be understood by the customer.

And that's one of the specific reasons I'm thankful we've got the 2 CPAs at church so involved. There are some others who have a lot of knowledge, but these guys deal with (or have dealt) with big money issues at corporations where they work. They aren't just "Johnny-Come-Latelies" [sp?]

Anyway, we need to get back on the ball on this one, b/c time is now running short, in my opinion. Our current lease runs up in August, I believe.




--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[Xippa]

Xippa does not sell or service copiers. We work with end users Nationally to ensure that the copier contract structure and pricing gets them what they think they are contracting for. Additionally, we will negotiate the copier contract on behalf of the customer with their vendor of choice. I can walk you through the "dealer" vs. "manufacture" business structure if that helps you narrow down a vendor. If your lease is up in August, you need to give proper notice to terminate or it will "evergreen". Without seeing the contract, I can only speculate but many times you must give between 90-120 days notice or it could auto-renew for a year. Please let me know if I can help.

http://www.xippa.net

 

[kjv1611]

Sure, it'd be worth talking, at the least. I'll contact you from your website sometime today or this evening if at all possible.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[Xippa]

Give me a call to discuss.

http://www.xippa.net

 

[kjv1611]

If I can just find the time in the near future, I will. So far, this week isn't looking good, and all of last week was the same... But I will asap.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[Xippa]

How are things going? Are you ready to discuss? Please let me know.

http://www.xippa.net