Send Resume and Salary Requirements to...

[MasterRacker]

I've seen this phrase "Send Resume and Salary Requirements to" or something similar appear in an increasing number of listings. All the advice I've ever been given has been to avoid this question like the plague. I've been told never to discuss pay at all until a second interview (unless the interviewer mentions it) and to try like hell not to throw out a number first - let them make an offer.

The obvious reasons, of course, that you might sell yourself too low, appear too desperate or price yourself out of even getting an offer.

I tried to avoid an upfront request like this earlier in the summer to try at least get an interview to discuss it, but, after two e-mail exchanges, was forced to give a number (after which of course I wasn't contacted again.)

So the question is, what can you do in these situations? Actually throwing out numbers seems dangerous but dissembling and saying things like "I'm more interested in the opportunities to advance myself than the starting wage" seems equally dangerous.

The only sure-fire solution I can think of is to give it all up and drink heavily...


Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[BJCooperIT]

When required to specify a rate, bearing in mind that I am a consultant, I include a "mushy" figure like:
$XX per hour, negotiable depending on location and benefits

Most firms that have contacted me seem to treat this as a maximum rate for negotiation. Considering that was my top-end figure for traveling, specifying the rate has not been a stumbling block. If the contract is in my home town or has good benefits I will happily accept a lower figure.

^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[MasterRacker]

Right, but I'm talking direct-hire job listings, which is going to be a little different. When you're bidding for a contract, you have to give numbers up front.

A follow up question I forgot to put in the first post is what are the listers trying to accomplish by putting this requirement in the ad?


Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[BJCooperIT]

I am not so sure that a direct hire is all that much different.

In my instance, I am dealing with a consulting firm that has obtained a contract and will be paid X dollars for every hour I work. I get some percentage of that and they negotiate with me to insure that they cover their expenses and make a profit. For a direct hire, the company usually has a budgeted maximum amount to spend.

In both negotiations the companies try get the most talent for the least money.

^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[chiph]

In the case of a FTE position (full-time employee), I wouldn't give them a number. Like MasterRacker said, it's not something that should be discussed up front -- only after the both of you are satisfied that you will be a good "fit" at the firm.

If the company throws my cover letter & resume out because I didn't list a salary, then that's fine with me. A company that concentrates on low price ends up with low-quality people who would jump-ship the first chance they got. Of course, if they *don't* jump when presented with a better opportunity, what's that say about them, and would you want to work with someone like that?

Chip H.


If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[Onyxpurr]

I agree with Chip H. In my career development class at school, they taught us never to tell salary range until after the first interview. Simply say it's up for negotiation.

One good point they also made is that it's not always about salary. I would be willing to take a bit of a paycut depending on benefits. The company may not realize it but maybe you would work for less if you can work flex hours, have great medical and dental and some nice ESOP options. Maybe the job offers a free company vehicle or tuition reimbursement.

At the past two jobs that I worked for, I was offered tuition reimbursement in the amount of $5250 per year. So I viewed that as a benefit. Sure it ends at one point, but hopefully by the time I've acheived my Masters the pay will increase.

 

[theoxyde]

To echo the sentiments already expressed here, traditional professional etiquette says that an employer needs to make you an offer, not the other way around.

Of course, the longer you are without a job, the easier it becomes to throw etiquette out the window.

 

[donttreadonme]

Not always do they even honor their posts. When looking for an IBM RS/6000 SP admin job, there was a posting in Chicago that said $90k-$110k, and I did a cost of living adjustment from where I live and there; sent in my range of $110k-$120k and never heard a word back.

Sometimes it is testing the market or just to collect resumes.

 

[MasterRacker]

But if I'm reading you right, you were already out of their range. Their post said they're not paying more than $110K.

Testing the market is one possible motivation. A company could be looking to fill a position in 6 months and want to check now on what they will have pay to fill it - or decide not if the numbers are too high.

Another motivation could simply be the standard attempt to get a wizard for peanuts.

When the prospect hasn't even had an interview and only knows the job responsibilities from a few bullet points in the ad, it'e pretty heavy handed to also ask them to name salary requirements.


Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[BJCooperIT]

Nowadays, I understand that employers receive literally hundreds of resumes for one advertised position. This might be an effective method to whittle down the pile. First they can toss those that failed to include the salary range ("Well, they can't follow instructions!"), and second they can eliminate those that are out of their range ("Too pricey!").

In todays IT job market I am sure that the employers feel they are in the driver's seat and can make demands that were unacceptable five years ago.

^{Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw}
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[donttreadonme]

I am guessing they wanted a monkey. Working on an SP in Chicago no less for $80k? There was a second job in Chicago for SP that I looked into and that was what they said was top end! I live in the middle of the country and I was close to that amount at my former company doing SP admining, yet they wanted someone in high cost of living Chicago on an SP complex for that?

What employers are doing now will haunt them in the future. But, it is what employees did 5 years ago. It's all cyclical.

And yes, I was out of their range, but my low end was at their top end. I guess they wanted a peanut worker or were trying to get salary ranges for future jobs. Doing their fishing that way.

 

[MasterRacker]

Just applied for a Network Administrator through a post that had this stipulation: "(Resumes without salary expectations will delay consideration.)"

This was on the company's website. They have 4 openings and the Network Admin was the only one that wanted salary requirements.

Anyone care to try and analyze that?



Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think they know that it's an employer's market right now for Network Admins. It's not a matter of finding the right skill set, because today that's too easy, as that skill set can be found with ease in the available labor pool. Now, it just a matter of shopping around for the best price.

Can't speak to the other openings, but I would have to guess that finding the skill sets required for those position may not be so pervasive within the labor pool, so the employer does not have the luxury of price shopping.

In many ways, it's basic supply and demand economics.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[OhioBill]

In the past I have always refused to divulge my annual salary until the prospective employer has told me the salary range for the position I'm applying for and explained the benefits package thoroughly. The time to discus salary requirements with an employer is after both parties have interviewed each other and concluded that a good match is found. Prior to that, my answer is always “Current market rate for the Midwest.”

Don’t lose sight of what the employer wants. If they can pay you 30K instead of the 75K you deserve, they’ll do it in a New York minute and laugh all the way to the bank. It’s business, nothing more or less.

 

[MasterRacker]

I've even seen a couple of listings now that won't even accept resumes without the minimum salary requirement. Everyone seems to agree that it's pretty rude that employers are doing this.

The problem is that those of us who are unemployed need to find a job eventually and are forced into playing this game. Of course, when the market loosens up some of these places will lose people, because they can move on to somewhere with more respect for their employees. Short term however, we don't have a choice.


Jeff
If your mind is too open your brains will fall out...

 

[DTSMAN]

I have noticed that many of the ads in the KY area ask for salary history not requirements. I was thinking that they were just trying to judge me by what others pay me.