R10 12

[IPOfficeGuru]

Reading through the Offer Definition for R10.
A few items that are disturbing.
1. PLDS Licensing process is going to be a pain in the A$$.
2. Avaya is moving to a per user model for the IP Office. A 'Basic User' license required for every user you create on the system. Without it Digital sets won't even work. (No wait - they can still dial 911)
3. The marvelous Avaya "IPOSS" is mandatory for every system. The R10 Offer Definiton tries to run you through some glorious justification of how wonderful the IPOSS will be for the customer. Thats after you attempt about 50 times to register the damn thing and then register 'your' customer "SOLD To:'which takes about 20 minutes - so Avaya can later take over tha account.
Remember - all of this so Avaya can streamline the installation process !!
What a joke - I haven't even touched on the "Avaya IP Office Cloud Offer" only $39.95 per seat - but you have to act now - says the guy from 'slap chop' infomercial.


"Never fear billing a client for services rendered, or they will think your time is worthless"

 

[janni78]

Mandatory IPOSS makes perfect sense from a business perspective and the way most companies that sell software work today or the direction they are heading, although I still think it should be included in the price for 3 years (even though the price would be higher) so we don't need to have this discussion.

I don't quite understand how people can accept buying other things today and continue paying during their lifetime, but their PBX should be maintained for life for free.
You buy an expensive new car and have to take it for maintenance at least once a year, replace your worn tires and on top of it all you need to fill it up with gas to keep it going or it's useless, that's stupid.

"Trying is the first step to failure..." - Homer

 

[RLSbutton]

I know you guys cannot stand me and the E-MetroTel UCx solution, but it's definitely been a good alternative for people that are frustrated with IP Office. I am not forcing anyone to buy it, I still just think its worth looking at.

Joseph Sus Jr. Nortel Emetrotel Consultant

http://www.joetheucxguy.com

 

[trinetintl]

mkoker, are you sure? Scansource Catalyst keeps telling me that it is, I will double check with them, thanks for that bit of information.

From a marketing perspective I used to include a 5 year IPOSS to each and every quote that I created when Co-Delivery was available without having to be ACCS or SME, it was inexpensive, it made sense, and it looked very good. Including a 5 year warranty on the system always made our proposals stand out, but ever since Avaya decided that in order to provide Co-delivery you are now required to be ACSS or SME and because of the dramatic cost increase of Wholesale, I simply decided to drop the IPOSS all together it made no sense to pay the expensive wholesale when I could practically purchase purchase a brand new PBX with that money, keep it in stock and be able to offer my own 5 year warranty via an inexpensive service agreement and not to mention the cost of the equipment if I looked at purchasing refurbished equipment instead. Does this make sense to you guys or it is just me going coo-coo, coo-coo?

RE

http://www.trinet-intl.com

APSS, AIPS

 

[mkoker]

You have to create a sold to account and an AUS order to order the PLDS LIC. But if you're doing a standalone IP500V2 then IPOSS isn't required. I think it was in the last revision of the R10 IPOSS update. There's a ton of confusion on the subject.

"Optional for configurations with a standalone 500v2 server (required if partner is providing support services)
Required for other IPO configurations, same IPOSS coverage level on all nodes
IP Office Centralized Branch uses the Support Advantage service offer "


NTSDirect

 

[trinetintl]

They are running all of my quotes through AUS to qualify my designs for SMB30 but all of the 9.1 proposals do not have the IPOSS with a cost associated to it however the only R10 that they submitted by accident does. Since I noticed that the IPOSS was missing the M for Mandatory next to it in the AUS sheet I asked if I could skip it when ordering and still keep the SMB30 promo but I was told that I could not, that I had to include it when ordering, I am definitely double checking with my sales rep because if this is true I am probably going to start switching all of my SMB30 quotes to R10. Do you have a link to Avaya's knowledgebase or a document name you can post that I can go look at to check for the official word?

RE

http://www.trinet-intl.com

APSS, AIPS

 

[mkoker]

That last snipit came from the power point presentation. Let me see if I can dig up the offer doc.

NTSDirect

 

[trinetintl]

Just received some wonderful news from our distributor, they are confirming that indeed for 500 v2 IPOSS is recommended but not mandatory. I am happy and surprised that Avaya actually listened to all of the business partners that complained and corrected course before GA particularly when it comes to the SMB market. I have compared quotes between 9.1 and 10 for 500 v2 and pricing is practically the same as a matter of fact R10 is less expensive by an incredible $1.30.

IPOSS is not mandatory, but is suggested on 500v2.
IPOSS is mandatory on Server, Select, and ASBCE

Hope this help for those of us that where still contemplating dropping Avaya.

RE

http://www.trinet-intl.com

APSS, AIPS

 

[hibroth]

Anyway IPOSS is mandatory to raise issues to the support, no way out, even if in warranty terms

 

[trinetintl]

OK but do you need IPOSS if you need to request support to replace a phone or maybe a combo card that failed within the 1 year standard warranty?

RE

http://www.trinet-intl.com

APSS, AIPS

 

[amriddle01]

No, you shouldn't, but distys deliberatly misinderstand/misrepresent the rules and Avaya are just out for every penny, so no point asking them

 

[mkoker]

As long as you have proof of purchase from distribution you can submit a RMA within the 1 year warranty period right on the Avaya support site. No IPOSS Required.

NTSDirect

 

[trinetintl]

Our disty took almost 3 days to confirm, he wanted to be sure before he gave me an answer and as long as IPOSS is optional and there is minimal change in the design process between R10 and R9.1 in the 500 v2 world and Avaya keeps the SMB30 live and well until the middle of next year, I am happy a very happy Avaya business partner, so happy that I am actually going to order an Avaya flag to put in front of our business. The PLDS situation bothers me a little bit but it is not a deal braker particularly if in return for the inconvenience it kick the gray market in the butt at least when it comes to controller units, I am sure phones in the gray market will continue to live a healthy life but you cannot sell a PBX without a controller unit, am I right or am I right?

RE

http://www.trinet-intl.com

APSS, AIPS

 

[amriddle01]

You're probably right about the CCUs, but the phones are always the biggest money maker and form the majority of most quotes, so not a great deal will change in that regard, they are still (like for like) among the highest prices for a proprietary handset out there

 

[trinetintl]

Yes but if you put the most expensive Grandstream set out there next to a 9608 the difference is amazing so much so that I have actually closed more expensive Avaya solutions by just showing the customer both sets sitting next to each other, just make sure not to turn them on and I know, you are right, dishonest partners can always combine a legit CCU with gray market phones but I guess that at a certain point in time an observant disty or even Avaya will start noticing the pattern and take the appropriate action, I doubt it, but I can always dream.

RE

http://www.trinet-intl.com

APSS, AIPS

 

[hibroth]

I am not talking about Hardware issue, mkoker, but software. Are you allowed to raise any Manager or software problem to the support if no contract or no IPOSS, even if in warranty terms?

 

[mkoker]

Technically you have 90 days according to the policy. But I have never opened a software related SSR without IPOSS.

NTSDirect

 

[gknight1]

i use this it seems once every couple of months for anything under the year warranty. never had an issue getting anything replaced. everything they do is 2 day advanced replacement. you email the form in and usually get a response with the RMA number in a few hours.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fp4gil5pwuupqpz/Avaya DMRA Form Blank.xls?dl=0

 

[IPGuru]

Replacing faulty hardware is probably fairly easily
I think we would just return it to the distributor we purchased it from.

Getting Avaya to investigate any other issue is unfortunately a non-starter.

I am sure that legally (Not I AM NOT A Lawyer so this is just opinion) they have an obligation to investigate issues on new systems but untill someone takes them to court with a test case they are going to continue with there "sorry not entitlement".
Of course no installer is going to take this approach because they simply do not have the time because they have a customer that needs to be supported





Do things on the cheap & it will cost you dear

 

[hibroth]

Recently I worked for a distri and agree with IPGuru, the distri does not have entitlements nor IPOSS so now can't escalate anything to help their partners. Even if I found some bugs on the core or the apps (i.e Manager, etc) we were not allowed to raise those issues so we had to wait the next MR.

 

[janni78]

That's the problem with how IPOSS works today, you save money not buying it and when you have an issue your only hope is that it's fixed in the next service pack.

Would be better for all parties to include IPOSS during warranty period, add the price on the base unit.
Here it costs about $250 a year if you're co-delivery so that can't be a deal-breaker, still if you would raise the price of the base unit and SE license the same amount and have it included a year then there wouldn't be any discussion about it. After a year you could buy IPOSS if you still want it or you could upgrade it to 24/7 the first year if required.

Think the main plan with the put-on-hold basic users was to change the IPOSS to a user based price, today it costs the same if you have 2 or 2000 users which don't make much sense.
And if they would do that the IPOSS for SMB30 should be so cheap that there no reason to complain any more.

"Trying is the first step to failure..." - Homer