Problems with cat3 running parallel with cat5 5

[meredda]

Hi,

We've just moved offices and because of financial constraints, I did the cabling myself. To each network point, I ran 2 * cat 5 cables (for networking) and 1 * cat 3 cable 2 pair (for phone).

When I took the face plates off at the old office, I discovered that they had run Cat5 connections for the phone as well, and that the jacks in the plates were set up for cat 5.

Needless to say, the cat 5 - cat 5 works fine. However, while we have dial tone on the phones (it is a digital phone system), we get a "clicking" sound interference on the phones when we are using them. It is also not possible to conference in a 2nd line.

I would hate to have to run cat 5 to all the locations again - running it in the first place was a real pain.

Anyone have any ideas? Should I replace the cat 5 jacks with Cat 3? Should I set different pin assignments? Should I shoot myself?

Thanks for any help.

 

[vaoldschl]

Wow, I'm surprised, it didn't work, I hadn't read that post yet, mine is working fine wired to the description.

 

[Bobg1]

max
did you use pins 7 and 8?
that shouldn't work properly, since if you use a 2 pair cord from the jack to the phone you won't even be touching those pins.....

 

[Bobg1]

max, which description?
I think it might also have to do with the 4 conductor jacks.
Not knowing which pin is what.

 

[meredda]

Could it be to do with the modular plug at the telephone end (a cat5 plug)? It is color coded brown, green, orange, blue (reading from pin 1 to pin 8).

For the cat 5 cabling (why oh why didn't I just run cat5 for the phones as well), I passed the connections straight through - brown-brown etc, with the solid color preceeding the white stripe of that color in each case.

 

[vaoldschl]

No dude, I have a four pin mod connector wired wh/bl,bl/wh,wh/or,or/wh running to a CAT5e (ICC) jack wired wh/bl to 3 bl/wh to 4 wh/or to 5 and or/wh to 6 running to a standard four pin line cord.

And yes, I know 7 & 8 aren't doing anything so I wired or/wh to 3 and wh/bl to 4 to match what meredda has and see what happens and I get nothing. Something else has to be going on here beyond my understanding of the scheme.

 

[Bobg1]

You are reading that wrong
the blue is pin one end.
so then you are using the correct pairs.
blue on the cat 5 jack is pair one, green is pair 3
(I am suspecting this is a 568B jack)
So you may have one or both of the pairs reversed, which will cause problems. try reversing them one at a time and see what happens.

 

[skip555]

why not just use 6 place 4 conductor cat 3 jack on each end wire them :

wht/orange
blue/white
white/ blue
ornage/white

then a standard telphone line cord from eah jack to the partner cabinet and to the phone.

 

[vaoldschl]

Okay, now I see what might be lost in translation. Still using the wiring you have at your modular plug, which is not correct but we won't worry about that:

wire the blue and the wh/or to the position labelled blue on your jack with the blue first.

The wh/blu and the orange will either be going to the green or the orange (depending on the jack being a or b) again with the wh/bl wired first.

 

[skip555]

i should have added my wiring diagram is looking from the back of the jack (the side without the hole) forward.

 

[usproprty]

you know what we need in this forum is ability to show pictures of the jacks and diagram.

 

[meredda]

MaxG & BobG,

OK - so (sorry if I seem stupid), but according to what I think you are saying, here is what I should have:

Mod Plug Color Blu Blu Org Org Grn Grn Brwn Brwn
Mod Plug Pin 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Cable Color B w w o
l h h r
u t t g
/ /
o b
r l
g u


This was pretty much what I had originally, apart from the pin 1 & 2 were switched - which may explain why the system (largely works).

So, I tried switching pins 1 and 2, and the "clicking" is reduced slightly. However, I still can't conference in that 2nd line...

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[vaoldschl]

Have you tried moving the wht/blu to 3 and the orange to 4 (the orange position on the jack)?

Also, if you ever have to move the system again wire the plug wht/org, blu/wht, wht/blu, org/wht (USOC RJ11 minus the green). Then on a standard CAT5 jack you would wire to the same USOC spec omitting the positions for green and brown. Even better still, in my opinion, buy the four pair wire and wire the whole shooting match to 568B (wht/org, org/wht, wht/grn, blu/wht, wht,blu, grn/wht, wht/brn, brn/wht).

 

[meredda]

Max,

Thanks. I will try that. If that does not work, I will also try the USOC RJ11 standard that you mention. I have enough cable at the PBX end, and the connectors are cheap enough (it's worth it just to relieve the stress). One question on that - is that the cable order looking at it from the bottom of the plug (the flat side) or the top?

...and how I wished I had just run the 4-pair in the first place....Needless to say, the computer network came up immediately with no problems.

 

[Bobg1]

Max,
You are correct with your colors to pins for 568B, But from what meredda said in a previous post he has a color coded jack, which is by the pairs, so that could be confusing.
Now if I have this figured out right I think the wire switch might actually be pins 1 and 2.

 

[vaoldschl]

Bob, I wasn't trying to confuse the issue, I just wanted to say I didn't think the advice I was giving was the "right" way to do things just a way that should work given the current situation.

Now, he has the Blu/wht on 1 and the wht/org on 2 which correspond to his color code of blue which should correspond to the center two pins on the jack and also correspond to the center two pins on the mod plug at the Partner system. My question is whether it is the green or the orange on his jack which corresponds to pins three and six. If the jack is 568A it should be the orange. If the jack is 568B it should be the green. Thus my advice to try moving the wht/blu and org/wht to the alternate location.

Meredda, when I refer to colors as regard a modular plug I am always looking at the plug with the contacts up. I'm guessing that's what you mean by the flat side.

 

[Bobg1]

Im going to redo Meredda's plug config from up a couple posts, the formatting gets goofy, but.....
Mod Plug Color Blu Blu Org Org Grn Grn Brwn Brwn
Mod Plug Pin 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Cable Color B w w o
l h h r
u t t g
/ /
o b
r l
g u

OK, now what he has here for pin numbers are not really pin numbers, I believe he just refered to them the way they lined up. So lets see how this goes
pair1 pair2 pair3 pair4
colors bl/w bl or/w or gr/w gr br/w br
pins 5 4 1 2 3 6 7 8

So, meredda is this making any sense to you, from the begining when you said you were using 3, 4, 7, 8 and I said it should be 3,4,5,6, you actually were using what I said.

 

[phoneguy422]

maybe- its your phone system? are all your cards seated properly- look at them from the side and make sure they are pushed all the way in. - just a guess but i think the cable issue has been beaten to death here, to no avail - maybe call a tech in for an hour to check the wiring- both data and voice and get him to check the ksu- maybe any swiches on your network- good luck

 

[meredda]

Thanks all,

Unfortunately, I think it's time to call in a tech. I think it's the color coded mod plug that's really screwing me up. I have a relatively friendly local tech, who can problably come in and how me what I did wrong and let me do all the other extensions once he fixes one.

Special thanks to max and Bob for all your helpful tips.

 

[skip555]

when you get it straightned out let us know what it was

 

[Mongo5150]

Does this problem persist when you just plug a phone into the KSU? That would eliminate the cabling.