Problems with cat3 running parallel with cat5 5

[meredda]

Hi,

We've just moved offices and because of financial constraints, I did the cabling myself. To each network point, I ran 2 * cat 5 cables (for networking) and 1 * cat 3 cable 2 pair (for phone).

When I took the face plates off at the old office, I discovered that they had run Cat5 connections for the phone as well, and that the jacks in the plates were set up for cat 5.

Needless to say, the cat 5 - cat 5 works fine. However, while we have dial tone on the phones (it is a digital phone system), we get a "clicking" sound interference on the phones when we are using them. It is also not possible to conference in a 2nd line.

I would hate to have to run cat 5 to all the locations again - running it in the first place was a real pain.

Anyone have any ideas? Should I replace the cat 5 jacks with Cat 3? Should I set different pin assignments? Should I shoot myself?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Bobg1]

The cat3 should be ok for the phones. You must have them wired correctly or they wouldn't work as far as they do.
Is this clicking showing up in all of the phones or just some? It sounds like you may be picking up some interference from something.

 

[meredda]

It is showing up to some extent in all of the phones, although it definitely seems to be worse in the phones furthest from the PBX. However, the distance to the furthest phone is only about 80 feet - so I did not think that it was cable distance.

I thought it might be interference initially (and it still might be). However, it is relatively constant. The only cable that runs parallel with them to all points is the cat5.

The cables run in three different directions through the ceiling to service the points - and we get the interference on phones on all three directions...

Thanks for the advice though.

 

[daronwilson]

I seriously doubt this is a wire issue, however it may be a polarity issue or miswiring issue. It is not likely a Cat5/Cat3 issue at all, but it could be outside interference.

What type of phones and system? I would want to know what system you are using (brand and model). If you had USOC wired jacks in the old system and now you have 568B wired jack, you will be missing the second pair (if you need it, some systems do).

So let us know what you are using, if it happens on all phones, etc.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[meredda]

Thanks. I have a partner ii pbx, with Partner phones. Everything was working fine in the old office (admittedly with the cat5). What's pointing me towards the cabling are:

1. I cannot conference a 2nd line. I can put the first line on hold, dial the 2nd line, but when I press conf again, I get high pitched feedback.

2. The jack wiring seems odd to me. The only wiring I could get to work is the following:

PBX End: wht/blu, blu, wht/org, org

Jack End: Pin 3 org, Pin 4 wht/blu,
Pin 7 blu, Pin 8 wht/org

What I find strange about this is that effectively I've split the pairs at the jack end - but as I say, it's the only combo I could find that worked.

 

[executone]

On the origina location, that was wired cat5. Do you remember what pairs were crossconnected at equipment end?
It sounds like a wirring problem, not a wire. What you say your jack is wirre like does not sound correct to me. I would double check how you terminated at jack and equipment end.

Good Luck!!

 

[Bobg1]

Hmmm, interesting. The partner phones use pins 3,4,5,6. A standard 2 pair cable will work for them. If you are wired 568A that would be the blue and orange pairs, if you are wired 568B it would be the blue and green pairs. I don't understand how you would end up with something on pins 7 and 8. That may be the problem.

 

[meredda]

Unfortunately, I don't remember how it was wired at the old office. I did note the wiring at the pbx, but it then ran into a patch panel and from there to the jacks.

I'm using cat 3, 2 pair - which just has orange and blue pairs.

When you say that it uses pins 3-6 - is that just at the phone itself? The problem with the connector at the jack is that it is a Cat 5 connector - which is why I ran to pins 7&8.

Given the connection at the pbx end (4 pin cat 3 jacj, wht/blu, blu, wht/org, org), what pins/wires do you think I should have wired at the phone jack end?

I have a jack easily accessible that I can re-wire and see if it works if you can let me know what the correct assignments should be.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Bobg1]

What type jacks are you using at the cable ends?
if they are 8 pin 568A or 568B?

 

[executone]

As Bobg1 stated. since you are using cat5 jacks. Wire your jacks using 568A standards on jack. White/Blue pair to pins 4/5 and white/orange pair to pins 3/6.

What brand of jacks are you using?

Good Luck!!

 

[Bobg1]

http://www.shout.net/~wildixon/telecom/rj/8pos.gif

Maybe this will shed some light on what we are trying to figure out for you. The 568B config uses pairs 1 and 3 or the ble and green pairs. The 568A uses pairs 1 and 2 or blue and orange pairs. but they both do the same thing.
Hopefully the drawing will help you understand.

 

[skip555]

cat 3 cable 2 pair (for phone).

two pair ? are you shure its cat 3 and not quad wire ?

whats the color code wht/blu wht/or or red ,green, black yellow.

Partner will work just fine on cat 3 I have probably 200+in my installed customer base all running off cat all fully functional.

how are you terminating the cable on the partner cabinet end ?

if you are crimping mod plugs on the end of the station wire it could be the culprit I would try terminating the problem phones on a regular jack and then use a premade line cord to see if that clears it up

you might also want to check out the partner forum some real knowledgable folks posting there

 

[daronwilson]

Yup..I think you got it wired wrong as well. The partner will do quite a bit with just the first pair on it, and if you split the pair and share battery and data where you arent supposed to, I'm sure it could get real confused.

Take a phone and 4 conductor line cord, plug it into the key system and see if you can work it fine there. I suspect you will be able to.

Now there are two ways of doing it, either you use 8 pin jacks in the key system ports (my preferred choice) or you use 4 pin jacks. There are previous posts that should help you out, just remember whatever is on pins 3,4,5,6 of that 8 pin jack on the key system need to end up on 3,4,5,6 of an 8 pin jack where you plug the phone in, or 2,3,4,5 if you are on a USOC modular jack.

HOpe that helps, lots of good ideas, sounds like you have it miswired though.

Good Luck!

It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com

 

[vaoldschl]

Just to reiterate what has been said here already and work with what I can of your description: At the pbx you have a 66 Block wired wh/bl,bl/wh,wh/or,or/wh for each extension on down the 25 pair which then converts to some sort of modular plug going into your Partner. Correct so far?

If so then the modular plug at your Partner should be wh/or,bl/wh,wh/bl,or/wh or at least correspond to those colors on the 66 block side if the color scheme is different going to the system which is a strong possiblity as I personally would split the pairs out of a 25-pair cable for that set up.

So, if I have everything right so far then the jack at your station should also be wh/or(3rd pos), bl/wh(4th pos), wh/bl(5th pos), or/wh(6th pos).

 

[meredda]

wow - thanks for all the replies everyone. The wire is definitely cat3 with 2 pairs - an orange pair (org, wht/org) and a blue pair (blu, wht/blu).

The cat3 wires run directly from the Partner II system to the modular plugs at each of the jack locations - I did not install a 66 block in the cupboard next to the PBX.

The actual jacks in the PBX are 4 pin jacks wired wht/blu, blu, wht/org, org. That was the same as the old location.

The jacks at the other end of the wire are modular Cat5 wall sockets with 8 pins (unknown make). The back of the jack is color coded standard cat5 color scheme (brown etc). Into that, I am plugging a standard 4 pin phone cable that came with the partner 2 phones.

From what I am hearing, the back of the cat5 jack should be wired Pin 3 wht/blu, Pin 4 blu, Pin 5 wht/org, Pin 6 Org. Does this sound right? I could swear I tried that and it did not work, but I'd be happy to try it again.

 

[vaoldschl]

That should make it work, although when referring to the wiring on the mod plug I just want to make sure we are looking at it from the conductor side. So, with the pins facing up you want the wire at the first pin to correspond to the wire in the 3rd postion at the jack, etc.

 

[Bobg1]

Meredda,
NO, that is not correct.
Pin 3 wh/or
Pin 4 bl
Pin 5 wh/bl
Pin 6 or

Pins 4,5 are the 1st pair
Pins 3,6 are the 2nd pair

Refer to the link I put in a previous post.

 

[meredda]

I think I'm just going to cry ;-<

I tried both ways - and event tried the 258A, 568a and 10BaseT from the previously provided diagram. None worked. The only thing that worked was putting it back how I had it, and that still gives me the interference and the inability to conference in a 2nd line.

Just to recap, at the other end I have (looking from the bottom of the 4 pin jack)

wht/blu
blu
wht/org
org

;-<

 

[Bobg1]

Ok , based on what you previously said

PBX End: wht/blu, blu, wht/org, org

Jack End: Pin 3 org, Pin 4 wht/blu,
Pin 7 blu, Pin 8 wht/org
try this
move 7 and 8 to 5 and 6
because for sure 7 and 8 are doing nothing.

Can you ring out the 4pin jack you are using so we know which wire is on which pin?

 

[vaoldschl]

Bobg1, you are right that is not correct if the wire at the modular plug was wired correctly which it is not. I'm working with the assumption that our harried friend doesn't want to rewire both ends.

His installation won't be to standard but it will work: I just wired the Partner on my test bench exactly as he's describing and, baddabing, she's running.