Primary Master Fails - Help Needed 2

[sm9]

I have a problem with my PC that I hope someone can help me with. I booted up my PC at 8am one morning before going to work, and I left it connected to Kazaa downloading files all day (as I often do). When I came home from work at 6pm, there was a message displayed on my monitor about some sort of error (I've forgotten exactly what it said), and it was loading in safe mode - this was a DOS screen, and nothing else was happening.

I then reset my PC, and as it started loading. I got a message on screen saying "Primary Master Fails." I could click OK to continue, then it will tell me to insert a System Disk as there is a Boot error, or I can hit DEL to enter Setup.

Therefore, basically, it appears that my Hard Drive is broke. I checked all the connections, and everything is fine, so I assume this is hardware fault. (?)

I have now bought a brand new hard drive (a Maxtor 30GB), and have just installed Windows XP and all my software from scratch. So my PC is working now.

...But my problem is this, my old Hard Drive had about 10Gb of files that I would like to recover, but as it's broke, what can I do? I have heard that some places can fix broken hard drives and recover the files? I don't
really care about the hard drive itself, only the 10Gb of data that's on it!

My last backup was about 6 months ago so I am missing a lot of data - digital family photos (mainly), downloaded utilities, personal documents, the lot! I definitely won't be making this mistake again (of not backing up for so long), but what's done is done, and now I want to try and see if there is anything I can do to rescue these files.

I had put a post on a newsgroup about this a few weeks ago, and the two suggestions I was given to fix the Hard Drive were to to hit it (but not too hard), or to put it in the freezer for 10 hours, then try if it works. I have not tried any of these ideas yet, but they may be my last resort before I get expensive professional help.

I have tried connecting the broken drive as a Primary Slave drive, but I still get a message on startup, this time saying "Primary Slave Fails." But Windows will then boot up from my new Primary Master.

On the BIOS / DOS screen that appears on my computer on startup, the broken Primary Slave drive is listed amongst the other drives and components, so it is being detected. It's just not working for some reason.

Also, when Windows XP loads for the first time with the broken hard drive connected as a Slave drive (strangely, Windows takes a few minutes longer to boot up when the broken primary slave drive is connected), I get a window appear saying "New hardware detected." In Device Manager, the broken drive is listed, and it says "This device is working properly." I find this very unusual, and wonder whether I could fix it or try something to make my hard drive work again? It's all very confusing for me though.

The specification of my PC is as follows:
Windows XP Professional, Athlon 1Ghz processor, 256Mb SDRAM, 32MB nVidia Graphic Card, Sound Blaster 32 Sound Card, Quantum Fireball Hard Drive - 30GB IDE (broken hard drive).

I hope someone can help or advise me, it will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephen

 

[Accessdabbler]

I would certainly NOT try freezing the drive or hitting it. I think they were suggesting that thinking that the HDD heads were stuck. You can try twisting the HDD. Don't warp the drive just twist it one way, then the other. This will free the heads if they are stuck. The normal distance between the head and platter is very, very small so not a lot of twisting is required.

 

[sm9]

Thanks for your reply. Do you think freezing it will ruin the hard drive or the data further if I did try it as a last resort? (after twisting it)

Also, do you know why the drive is failing, yet it is detected by Windows XP and it appears in Device Manager as working properly? ...though I cannot see the drive in My Computer.

Any other ideas for things to try? I want to try and get together as many ideas as possible before carrying them out. Otherwise I could end up damaging the data on the drive rather than recovering it!

Thanks,

Stephen

 

[gargouille]

I've heard of the "cooling" method and of some ppl who've used it and it worked.
I would only do this on a lark...out of curiosity...and for sure not on a drive that I was concerned with retrieving the data.
I would say, tho, unless you're a computer professional with lots of resources, hand it off to someone who can experiment with it and they might be able to get it running long enough to mine the data from it.

 

[Accessdabbler]

I'd be afraid of ice crystals forming on the platters. It shouldn't happen in a sealed drive but who knows? I think they suggest freezing only because cooling metal contracts thus freeing up the heads. Instead of freezing it, try putting it in the fridge where it won't freeze but will cool down.

The HDD has the controller built into the drive. It's possible that the controller is failing and not the drive mechanism. I've never replaced a controller but it can be done. Best to send an email to the manufacturer.

Also, maybe the power cable to the drive is defective. Try using another power cable. If you have two IDE cables, put the defective drive on the secondary channel (by itself as master) so that it isn't being interfered with by another IDE device.

 

[vincentL]

Dear SM9,
Ok, I think that the master boot record (MBR) is corrupted. Fortunately hard drives contain a copy of the MBR in a physically different location and you can copy this backup MBR to the normal location on the hard drive (first sector of first track) by running the command "fdisk /mbr" at a C prompt in DOS.
Example:
C:\> fdisk /mbr D:

(D: is for the D: drive - slave on primary IDE port).
Luck,
Vince
vincentL@acmc.com Vince LaPorte
vincentL@acmc.com
Marshall, MN 56258

 

[roamer1]

Hello sm9,

http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm

is a diag/repair utility for Maxtor/Quantum drives produced by the manufacturer. Use it very, VERY carefully as some tests can wipe your software. If it won't fix via the non-destructive methods provided by Powermax: STOP!!!

There are software programs to recover lost data (search this site, many are referred, some are free or cheap) or can be recovered by a tech shop. Do the non-destructive Powermax tests first as your recovery results will be better if the drive is operating as well as possible.

If it is determined that the data is gone, the Powermax utility destructive tests can sometimes bring the drive back to a useable state.

 

[sm9]

Thanks again for your replies, it is much appreciated.

To Gargoille: I think you could be right with that freezing method, and that's why I haven't done it yet, just in case it did more damage than good! When I was first told about, I thoght people were winding me up!

To Accessdabbler: I was also told that if I put it in the freezer, to put it in a paper bag to prevent any condensation or ice dripping into the hard drive (or something like that?).

I don't know anything about the controller, so as you say, this solution would best be left to the experts.

I have used a different power cable for the drive, and connected it using the the original and spare power cables. The new hard drive works fine using the same power cable that the broken had been using when it broke.

I haven't tried connecting the broken drive as a Secondary Master though, so that is something I should try. For your information, the setup of my system is:

Primary Master - new replacement Maxtor 30Gb hard drive
Primary Slave - nothing at the moment (though I have tried the broken hard drive here, but with no success)
Secondary Master - CD Writer drive
Secondary Slave - DVD drive

To vincentL: If you really think that could be the problem, how do I get to the C: prompt in DOS when the hard drive is broken? When the computer booted up with the broken drive as Primary Master, I could only enter the BIOS Setup or be prompted to insert a System Disk. There was no C: prompt for me to type in any commands.

At the moment, with my new hard drive as Primary Master, is there a way I can run this command on the broken hard drive if it is connected as a Primary Slave? My only problem then is that the broken drive is not viewable in Windows (except for in Device Manager, and does not have a drive letter assigned to it - can I fix this?)

Do you have any more advice or ideas about this? I'm not really sure what to do next.


Thanks again for your replies.

Stephen

 

[edfair]

fdisk /mbr is a raw command that doesn't require the drive to be identified. It just dumps the stuff to the sector.
Freezing won't hurt. Just that it was a viable solution in the old days when drives had stepper motors and the mechanics led to heads and cylinders not tracking properly, so you cooled the drive to shrink the platters.
Rotating and stopping the drive in the direction of rotation was used to overcome "stiction" where the lubrication on the platters caused the heads to stick and keep the drive from spinning. This also in the old days of particularly the Seagate ST251 40mb drive. Start it in the same plane as normal rotation as fast as you could and stop it with the heel of you hand. Generally would break it loose the first try.
Can you feel the drive vibrating when you power up? If it doesn't spin up it won't get to the "up to speed" point in the drive microcode, so it won't ID to the controller. Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[sm9]

To vincentL: I have just re-read your post, and noticed that you say the command to try is fdisk mbr d: ...On my PC, the D Drive is the Secondary Master, and the E drive is the Secondary Slave. Which drive letter should I type in to perform the MBR restore on the broken Primary Slave (when it doesn't have a drive letter assigned to it)? Or should I just disconnect the CDR and DVD drives, and type in fdisk mbr d: (and it will automatically assume the D drive is the broken Primary Slave?

To Roamer1: I have just been to the Maxtor website and downloaded that program, and printed the pdf help file. Before I use it though, I am going to back up all my data on the new hard drive to CD, just in case anything else goes wrong! I will be very careful which tests I run. I think I can safely run the Installation Confirmation Test, the Basic Quick (90 Second) Test, the Advanced (Factory Re-Certification) Test, and the Burn It Test. But I will not run the Write Disk Pack (low level format) test as this is the test that destroys all data, thanks for the warning!

To edfair: how can I get to the Dos prompt with the broken drive connected as the Primary Master? I could then try that fdisk /mbr command. Otherwise, would it work if I went to the Dos prompt with the new hard drive connected as the Primary Master, and the broken drive as the Primary Slave? (or would that just replace the boot sector for the new drive, which I don't want to do?)

I will run the Maxtor test utility, and see what happens with that. I will let you all know how it goes. When the broken drive is connected again, I will let you know if I feel it vibrating or not (I have never noticed to be honest, so I will check this out).

Then if all else fails, I might try the freezing option (with some reservations), in case this option works.

But I will try the other options first, and I will let you all know what else happens after I try the Maxtor diognistic utility - probably evening now, after work - fingers crossed!

Thanks again for your helpful replies.

Stephen

 

[vincentL]

Stephen,
To simplfy rewriting the MBR try removing your new good drive and just install this broken old drive as the only drive (master) on the primary IDE cable.
Then boot up your system with a windows boot floppy and at the A prompt type "fdisk /mbr".
Example:
A:\> fdisk /mbr

Luck,
Vince Vince LaPorte
vincentL@acmc.com
Marshall, MN 56258

 

[edfair]

or put your ear to it and listen for a whine of spinning. normal drive comes up to speed in a couple of seconds, then when the rotation count hits somewhere around 1024 the drive calibrates, steps out then resets to track0. Sounds like a floppy seeking but faster, like zip,zip. Ed Fair
unixstuff@juno.com
Any advice I give is my best judgement based on my interpretation of the facts you supply. Help increase my knowledge by providing some feedback, good or bad, on any advice I have given.

 

[mainegeek]

Have you tried IDE Auto Detection again in the cmos setup?

 

[sm9]

To vincentL: I will change my hard drives around, and try typing that command when I come home from work tomorrow. Are you sure it won't delete any data that is still on the hard disk though? I'm kind of a newbie, so I'm not familiar with these commands. As long as my data won't be deleted, I will be okay to try this.

To edfair: When I re-connect the broken drive tomorrow, I will have a go at listening for this spinning noise. I will let you what I hear, as it could help in determining what the actual problem is if that fdisk /mbr command doesn't fix the problem.


I'm just about done backing up my files to CD, so I will be able to 'mess around' with my PC tomorrow. I'm just downloading various help files and boot floppy disks, just in case things don't work as they should. I don't want to be stuck in a mess halfway through trying something!

Does anyone have any recommendations for a website where I can get a good boot floppy disk from? I've got various disks already, but I want to have a few spare as some of them are quite old now and I don't want to rely on them too much.

Thanks again for all your replies, I will keep you posted.

Thanks,

Ste

 

[firewolfrl]

you might try the Data Recovery program 'Winternals Disk Commander' it is one of the best out there.
it costs about $300 but works great. (you might try Kazaa)
the alternate is to sent the drive out to a data recover center (about $400-600) I spent $350 on a defective IBM drive in one of these centers (they saved the last pictures of my grandpa when he was alive "irreplacable&quot the computer had gone through a fire.

here is a Trial download link of Disk Commander

http://www.pillar-solutions.com/html/disk_commander.asp

here are some freeware links to another good program
PC Inspector File Recovery 3.0.1

http://www.webattack.com/download/dlpcinspector.shtml

http://www.webattack.com/Freeware/system/fwdatarecovery.shtml

PC Inspector File Recovery 3.0.1 (c-net)

http://download.com.com/3000-2248-10118664.html?tag=lst-0-19

if you get your data off the drive without sending it out.
try low level format (zeroing) of the drive and see it that saves the drive.

 

[vincentL]

Stephen,
Yes I am sure that the "fdisk /mbr" command will not destroy your data.
Vince Vince LaPorte
vincentL@acmc.com
Marshall, MN 56258

 

[sm9]

To mainegeek: In the BIOS setup, the Primary Master and Primary Slave are both set to Auto. Is this what you mean?

To firewolfrl: I don't think data recovery software will be any good to me as my hard drive isn't even accessible (would the software help in this situation?) But I will take a look at those links you have posted anyway, as they may help, thanks. If I none of the other suggestions here work, then sending my hard drive to an expert will be my only (expensive!) option.

To vincentl: I have just turned my computer off, and disconnected my new hard drive. I then connected the broken hard drive as the Primary Master, and turned the PC on.

(I will now list what happens as I seen it, in case it can help anyone in determining my problem)

(a) The BIOS screen appears as the PC is turned on, and it performs the memory test as normal.

(b) A table appears with a list of my hardware on my PC on the DOS / BIOS screen, as normal. In the line for my Primary Master, it says "Detecting QUANTUM FIREBALLP AS30.0." Again, this is normal - but I think it is interesting that my PC knows which hard drive has been connected, so there must be some life left in it. (?)

(c) After a few seconds, a DOS error message will appear: "Primary Master Fails."

(d) It says: "Press DEL to enter setup, or press F1 to continue."

(e) I pressed F1 to continue, and I then get a message a few seconds later telling me to insert my System Disk.

(f) I inserted my boot floppy disk, and pressed Enter.

(g) The floppy loads for a few seconds, then I get the A:\ prompt.

(h) I typed fdisk / mbr, then pressed Enter.

(i) A message then appeared at the very top of the screen saying "No Fixed Drives Present."


Do you have any ideas what I can do now?


I have now reconnected my new hard drive as the Primary Master, and the broken hard drive as the Primary Slave. I don't know why, but when I boot up my PC using this configuration (i.e. broken hard drive connected as a primary slave), Windows XP will take about 5 minutes longer to load than normal. It seems to hang forever on that black Windows XP Professional slash screen.

My broken Hard Drive is viewable in Device Manager, and it tells me the "device is working properly."

Any ideas on what my next step should be?

Thanks for all your help.

Stephen

 

[firewolfrl]

Both 'Winternals Disk Commander' and 'PC Inspector File Recovery' do NOT need to see the with a drive letter assigned to the harddrive.
you select the option with no drive letter.
if the drive can be seen by windows it might be worth a try at it.

 

[sm9]

To edfair: When my broken hard drive was connected to my PC earlier, I tried to listen to the sound it makes, but I couldn't do this because the noise of the fan was too loud. I could also not hear the noise that the new hard drive made. I would have to mute the fan to listed for noises, but I'm not sure how feasible this is.

To firewolfrl: I will try and use my friends copy of Winternals Administrator's Pak, so I can see if this program can be of use to me.


Last night, I downloaded Powermax, the Maxtor diognistics utility that was recommended to me by roamer1. When I tried to extract this program to disk, it failed to extract as there was an error. I emailed Maxtor Support, and they emailed me a copy of PowerMax v3.04 today. I ran this program and created a PowerMax floppy disk.

I connected my broken hard drive as the Primary Master, and rebooted my machine with the PowerMax disk in the A: drive. I then performed some tests on my broken hard drive, and I wrote down as much information as I could as they might mean something to one of you:

Test 1 - Installation Confirmation Test:
Power Connection - Pass
Interface & Cable Connection - Pass
Master / Slave Jumpers - Pass
BIOS Extension Support - Fail
Partition Information - Read Fail
SMART Status Check - This model predates SMART

Installation confirmation, please press any key to continue. Note that this drive has not been partitioned. You will not be able to use this drive until it has been formatted and partitioned. Use MaxBlast or your operating systems utilities to partition and format your drive. Press any key to continue.


Test 2 - Basic Quick (90 second) Test:
Soft Reset Test - Pass
Drive Recal Test - Fail

Recal command failure, aborted command. This drive has failed one or more tests. If you do not have a recent backup of the data, please do so now if possible. You may attempt to repair the drive using the Advanced Test, or you may contact Maxtor Service and Support. Make sure you tell the customer service representitive that the diognostic software reported the following error code: UK0E02. Press Escape to return to the program. Test Complete.


I never performed any more tests, as the help file tells me not to peform the next test unless these first few tests have both passed successfully.

I hope these results can help some of you understand what is wrong with my hard drive a bit better. (?)

Thanks for your help,

Stephen

 

[firewolfrl]

try the Winternals Administrator's Pak and see if it works

if not send it out...

do NOT do the low level fomat you well lose your data