POSSESSED 8X24/DR5.1

[leardini]

I’m the 3rd vendor hired by a Doctors Office to solve this problem. It’s been now 8 months since I’ve started working on this and I’m about ready to give up. They have a Meridian 8x24 KSU with DR5.1 Software, 16 x M7324 Sets and a PC based Voice Mail, which I don’t know much about (I’m only working on Norstar line of Voice Mails). The system drops calls like crazy. It usually happens in early morning hours (when they have a lot of incoming traffic). A few times I called from an outside location and I hear a half a ring and get disconnected. Now before someone HOPEFULLY instructs me where I should locate this problem let me start by telling you what I’ve done so far.

1.Replaced the KSU/Software/2P Exp Cartridge/Trunk Module/DS card.

2.Sold the KSU pulled out of this office to another client and it works fine.

3.Pulled new cables from Floor Closet to Doctors Office Closet for the 9 telco lines going into the system.

4.Toned station cables & replaced all jacks going to extensions on the system.

5.Installed a brand new Smart UPS APC-1400 for the system.

6.Completely disconnected (for 1 week) the PC based Voice Mail from the system but it was still dropping calls.

7.Had Telco (SBC) move all the lines to new binding posts coming from the street to the tower.

8.Moved lines to new cable pairs in the house cable running from building basement to 11th floor (Floor Closet).

9.Had Telco run all kind of tests – they blame it on my equipment.

10.Installed a SL phone before the KSU on a particular line – NEVER DROPPED ONE CALL ON THIS Single Line set.
Am I crazy? Am I missing something? At this point I’ll try anything. Pls HEEEEELP!
Thank you!

 

[leardini]

Forgot to add that I replaced all connecting blocks and cables.

 

[curlycord]

WOW! Holy shyte? lol
I have to ask...did you backup the old KSU via RAD and upload to the new? if so do a startup as you may have a bug.
The SL set you used...did you use it during busy time and only on one line? do they keep track of which lines are dropping?

Maybe replace the KSU with a 0X32 as a final test so you do not end up in some sort of asylum lol.

http://www.spoctel.com

 

[leardini]

curlycord

thanx for replying
didn't have to do any backup via RAD. The second KSU I've manually programmed from scratch. The SL set was there for 1 week (non stop/day and night) on a line=the line that they had most problems with. It happens most of the time on lines 1 to 4 but NOT ONLY on this 4 lines. I temporarily installed a MICS with 3 brand new 7310's on it and same line I had on the SL set. I'll give this a try for a few days and then...the 0x32 WILL BE. Do you think that one of the 7324 sets could cause this problem? Or the fact that all (9) lines ring on all 16 sets drains too much juice out of that 8X24? Or maybe 0X24's do not like XRAY Machines or Doctors?

ML

 

[curlycord]

Ya maybe the xray machines lol, the 8X24 should handle much more than what its being given from this doctors office as far as punishment.
If the 0X32 does the same then maybe it is the Xray machine lol or it's thwe Telco and the lazy line testers just blame the systems.
GL : )

http://www.spoctel.com

 

[leardini]

Curly,

I swear, THIS SYSTEM MAKES ME GO BALD. Telco's answer was that "if it doesn't drop on the SL set...the lines are OK". Well?? Maybe I can convince the doctor to get a T-1. Thanks for your help Curly at this late hours. Good Night!

 

[12340000]

Bet its the voice mail.Turn off the pc v.mail and hook up a flash.Problem solved.Unless you have the manual for the ginaric v.mail,so you can check out the programming.

 

[westcoaster]

Is the system resetting, or just dropping calls?
have you tried exchanging the reception set with another in the office? (if the system is dropping calls)
I have seen some 7324 sets do some funny things with handsfree. you might want to disable auto handsfree on all sets.

 

[leardini]

12340000
Can't be the voice mail...I had the Voice Mail disconnected from the system (for 1 week) and it was still dropping calls.

westcoaster
the system is just dropping calls, NOT RESETTING. I't dropping calls from all stations not only from reception set. Maybe something that I don't know, but what difference would it make if the reception set would be connected to another port. I could disable auto handsfree just for the heck of it.

Thank you guys

 

[westcoaster]

here is what I was thinking... I have had some 7324 sets automatically go on hands free If that set is programmed to ring it may be answering the line and dropping it... LONG shot, I know.
Have you tried setting disconnect supervision to no? If you did this any momentary open on the telco lines would translate to a clicking on the line and not a dropped call. The draw back would be telco recordings "please hang up and try your call again" being left in your mailboxes.
Have you checked for security alarms on the lines? maybe move these to any fax or modem lines that are available. Security alarms are notorious for dropping/disconnecting/answering calls.(one line only)
Are calls getting disconnected in the middle of the call, or do callers only hear a half ring then have to redial?

 

[leardini]

westcoaster

I've seen it drop calls in the middle of conversation and I've also cald in, got half ring then had to redial. True,
this 7324's are the old version. I'll take your advise and make the changes tomorrow (as far as Disconnect Supervision and Auto HF). Have you seen this problem even with the new version 7324's? The phones are the only piece of equipment I haven't replaced in this office. I'll also pull out the Alarm/Event Log and let you know what I find. On my notes I have a couple of events I pulled out from the 1st 8x24 (before replacing it with a new one); EVT 608 S6 & EVT 609 S4. Keep in mind this system is not in that office anymore. Sold it to another client and it works fine.

Thanks for your help!

 

[samh30]

After reading your post and seeing you replacing most likely everything ,I suggest to look into measuring the loop current on your CO lines,because if you have high loop current you could have a problem with disconnecting or cut off on the lines,so If you can measure the loop current on the lines ,and it should be within the range of 23ma(miliampere) to 27 ma if its higher or lower it could cause the problem and you should either contact the phone company or use an attenuator or resistor to correct the loop current values.Thats my opinion you can give it a try. Good Luck!

http://www.samhassan.com

 

[Arr]

Leardini,
Also check your CO line voltage. Current is a product of the load while the voltage is the energy that will help push the electrons once there is a load. Your CO voltage should be -48 to -54 VDC tip to ring. If you have more or less of these values you may have problems. Also look to ensure you don't have reversals. Norstar doesn't usually have reversal problems but... check the integrity of the ground. if the Xray machine is close enough you will have your electronics loaded with RF which will show up in the KSU as free static. If the dropped calls are random but mostly during high voltage periods, like rings, then high static conditions may be effecting the ability of the CO card relays to remain connected. ??? Check your grounds!!!
Now if all looks good try wrapping the KSU or sheilding it and the MDF with tinfoil. Ground the tinfoil. This will provide an RF screen which MAY help if the Xray machine is the problem. I had an old Samsung set in an adjacent office to an Xray machine and it inducted a static charge like crazy. Near burnt your lip off when the unwary picked up the phone.
Just some thoughts.
Sam I think this forum needs a long discussion on loop current vs voltage. It will be fun and we'll all learn something as the ideas get kicked around. But later.

Cheers all. Good luck.

PhM

 

[leardini]

I'll measure the LOOP CURRENT & the VOLTAGE on all 9 lines tomorrow morning. But, don't you think that if this is a current/voltage issue I would see at least one call dropping on my MICS system that sitts next to the 8x24 KSU and has the line 4 connected to it? This is been there for 10-days and there are 3 setts connected to it. The people in the office tell me that they use this 3 phones extensively. Thanks again! I'll keep you posted as to what I find.

ML

 

[samh30]

The line card for the Mics has more tolerance for voltage and loop current,I saw it working with loop current 20ma and up to 30 ma,but for the 824 its not the case.
Keep in mind its an older system.

Arr,
I think you right we need either right FAQ or something about the loop current and voltage maybe it could help some members. Good Luck!

http://www.samhassan.com

 

[leardini]

samh30
that's a good point. I thought that the NT7B75GA's have better tolerance than the NT5B40G's or the relays on the 8x24 MB but I wasn't sure. Like I said; I'll make all the measurements tonight or tomorrow morning and post those for further discussions. I'd rather replace that KSU with the MICS if I new it will solve the problem. There are some workers in the office that already look at me kind of suspicious asking me all the time: DID YOU COME TO FIX IT AGAIN??? WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO TODAY??? Just imagine what they would say if they see me wrapping the KSU with alluminum foil. Also the KSU has about 6 offices in between the XRAY room (approx 60 feet straight line). Hey, I'll try this too if I won't find a glitch in my measurements.
Thank you all!
Michael Leardini

 

[westcoaster]

I think the 7324 sets are a red herring at this point. you are having calls drop in the middle of the conversation you are also having calls drop on all sets(??), that blows any theory out of the water I had about the sets...
If you havn't done this already... Get the customer to document on a piece of paper each time they have had a call drop. Tell them you want date, time, and line number. Tell them to use feature 77 (call timer-gives time and line number) to determine the line they were talking on. tell them you are not happy with just a couple entry's you want a week's worth (or more depending on how often this occurs) I cant tell you the number of times I have had customers tell me they have had "calls drop on all lines" only to look at their record and determine it is happening on one line only

 

[curlycord]

Have had same problem as westcoaster....they need to help you help them.
If the voltage test passes then I strongly advise you to change the KSU to a used 0X32 as a test, you have done far too much to trouble shoot so far and changing the KSU will only take 2 hours and if all works out then sell them a new one.

http://www.spoctel.com

 

[Arr]

Leardini,
Don't wrap in tinfoil if Xray that far away. It is a sound theory if the thing was very close... I did forget to mention that the Tinfoil needs to be grounded.
Do check your ground connection to the three prong plug.
Westcoaster and Curlycord have it right. Loop current should be as stated by Sam but to get there your voltage has to be right too!
Just a last stab at that Xray... disconnect the telephone nearest it.. see if there's a difference. NEVER underestimate the power of RF.

Cheers
PhM

 

[leardini]

Just spoke with the doctor and I will be there tomorrow morning 9:00am/LosAngeles. I will let you know as soon as I get back.

Arr
You stole my thought, I was going to disconnect the phone closest to the XRAY machine. Will be done tomorrow also. But this machine is hardly used (the doctor told me).

westcoaster/curlycord
I know for a fact that it doesn't drop calls on a specific line. It happened to me on lines 1,2,3,4,7,8,9. If the measurements come up OK next step will be installing the MICS and a Norstar VM.