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Plurals, possessives, and consistencies

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Sinlaeshel

Sinlaeshel

IS-IT--Management
Sep 23, 2005
18
CA
While waiting for my sister to finish work the other night, I noticed an odd thing in the way this particular store she works at catagorized their departments. One department was "Woman's", another department was "Men's", and a third department was "Kids".

Woman's - Singular possessive
Men's - Plural possessive
Kids - Plural non-possessive

Does this inconsistency seem odd to anybody else?
 
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Personally, even if I see Kansas' (as in "Have you seen Kansas' flag? It rocks!!"), I would pronounce it 'kansusus' to denote possession.

Am I alone here?

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No anotherhiggins, you are not alone. In fact, those who prefer using "'s" often justify that position because it more closely matches the pronunciation.

Using the apostrophe by itself doesn't add an extra syllable, whereas, using [tt]"'s"[/tt] does add another syllable. Since you pronounce the extra syllable, you should write the extra syllable.

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John (AnotherHiggins), You are certainly not alone, but, in fact, I believe that all of us who are Type-A consistency freaks would whole-heartedly agree with you. Those who "hate the sound of Kansas's" also hate to venture too far east of Kansas's eastern border since they may have to cross the Mississippi and have to say too many "s" sounds in a row.<grin>

I would venture to say that those that are "s-sound" phobic should get with the program and see a therapist.<big grin, tongue-in-cheek, teasing, good-natured fun>

[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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Actually, reading my previous post again I realized that "Have you seen Kansas' (pronounced Kansus - no ending 's') flag? It rocks!!" doesn't sound weird to me, so I might go either way on its pronunciation.

But I would absolutely pronounce the ending 's' sound when reading, "Jesus' followers are known as Christians", even if it is written "Jesus'". Otherwise it sounds to me like 'Jesus-followers'. You know, like, "Them Jesus-followers are on the lawn again. Get me the shotgun."

Sorry, tgreer.

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John (AH), I totally agree on your "Jesus' followers are known as Christians" example. As I mentioned earlier (but several seem to have conveniently ignored my assertion), when you say "Jesus' followers are known as Christians", how do you verbally distinguish between that sentence's meaning and the same-sounding, but slightly different-meaning sentence, "Jesus-followers are known as Christians"? Ambiguity is undeniable; the ambiguity disappears with "Jesus's followers are known as Christians."

Those who assert that "Jesus's" just sounds wrong have simply been hearing things in one "comfort zone" their whole lives and cannot accept the logic and virtual simplicity of the correct way.<grin>

Remember, those that argue, "It just doesn't sound right," are lending credibility to the good 'ol boys that claim, "If'n y'alls ain't sayin', 'we wuz', then 'at 'ere jez' ain't soundin' raht."

[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[ Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.
 
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The context makes "Jesus' followers" perfectly understandable. Also, "Jesus' followers" and "Jesus-followers" are stressed differently.

"Jesus-followers" would be stressed with "JE" being stressed the most, "fol" stressed slightly.

"Jesus' followers", though, places nearly equal stress on JE and FOL.

The various resources and searches on the topic argue for consistency of usage; there is no definitive way to handle clumsy-sounding constructions arising from making such terms possessive.

That being the case, then, I argue for what sounds the most elegant, vs. oddities like "Kansas-us".

Thomas D. Greer
 
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I think tgreer has a good point about stressing certain sounds for specific semantic meaning.

To me, it sounds like the ending 'z' sound in Jesus is stressed, and there is a pause inserted between Jesus and followers, when speaking the possessive case.

I don't hear the pause, or any stress on the trailing 's' when speaking the adjective case.

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Also, the meanings don't differ significantly, in any case:

Jesus' followers ARE Jesus-followers, aren't they?

This is clearly a case where I can't be dogmatic. (That was my weak attempt at a pun.)



Thomas D. Greer
 
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anotherhiggins said:
Personally, even if I see Kansas' (as in &quot;Have you seen Kansas' flag? It rocks!!&quot;), I would pronounce it 'kansusus' to denote possession.

Am I alone here?
Click to expand...

No, that's what I do.

-------------------------
Just call me Captain Awesome.
 
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Just to toss a pebble in the pond, to cause ripples, or waves of conversation among those who surf, etc...

tgreer said:
Jesus' followers ARE Jesus-followers, aren't they?
Click to expand...

Most likely, yes. Some, more than once.

Try the "Hey-Zeus" pronunciation. Ci if that gets you anywhere.

The Rio Grande is, these days, a current event.

Tim

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I love logging onto Tek-Tips. It's always so exciting to see what the hell I
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Hey Captain Awesome,

Every now and again I post when I'm in a really, really ill mood.

Please know that whatever I said about "Rio Grande" was not about you.

May I say Many Thanks, in anticipation of your generousity.

Tim

[blue]______________________________________________________________
I love logging onto Tek-Tips. It's always so exciting to see what the hell I
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SilentAiche said:
I love logging onto Tek-Tips. It's always so exciting to see what the hell I said yesterday.
Click to expand...

That really applies here, doesn't it?

-------------------------
Just call me Captain Awesome.
 
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Sorry Cap't,

Didn't mean to offend. In fact, I tried to retract. If that's not enough, then I don't know what to say.

BTW: Carly Simon had a hit song titled "Anticipation" years ago. Cool tune. You might not have heard it, however.

Tim

P.S.: the sig was supposed to be funny; perhaps I should label the next one, so as not to confuse those who get that way.

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I love logging onto Tek-Tips. It's always so exciting to see what the hell I
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I found out long time ago - if you talk fast - all of these small "s'" and such issues are going unattended, missed, neverminded.LOL
 
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James,

Although "Gateses" may sound unusual or uncomfortable, how else (if one of them is "a Gates") would you refer to two persons that are individually each "a Gates"?

[santa]Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[ Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.
 
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