PC boot problem 4

[Crustyoldbloke]

Last week I moved my son's PC, taking care not to drop it or bash it. When it was in it's new place, it failed to boot. The boot sequence goes as far as "verifying pool data" and stops.

I have tried to boot it from a floppy "startup disk" and from a Win98 CD, by changing the bios sequence, to no avail. I have also changed the hard drive to a known "good one", again, no good.

Am I looking at a motherboard problem? or is there something else I should be doing diagnostically to get to the root of the problem?

Any help, greatly appreciated.

 

[DBSSP]

When batteries die or start to die they can do strange things to your bios and such. They can create very big problems such as the one your are having. You can the swap the battery for a good one and see what happens...after that, I'm afraid that it's possible the Gigabyte Bios just blew it...I'm wondering if this is a reaccuring problem with that compnay because their new boards now come with dual bios chips, one is a failsafe backup....let me know if things change by changing the battery..

My explanation...the battery may be supplying just enough juice to retain time and such as this is a no effort circuit..but the bios chip itself has dozens if not hundreds of tiny links that enable each pin to do what it does in certain sequence, older ships used an ultra-violet light to change these links or break them apart. Newer technology simply uses a little bit more (just a very tiny smidge) electricity to blow the links or reconnect them. You bios battery may not have the juice to maintain the links, hence they are blowing out when you turn it on and causing problems...

I'm not saying this is your problem but it is highly possible. Jay

"Jeezus-sqeezits Bob!"

 

[Crustyoldbloke]

I've just cleaned the CMOS battery with alcohol (wish I'd drunk it now), it was remarkably clean, not surprising becasue it's only two years old. Boot up, still the same.

I will try another battery just in case, but I think something has blown on the MOBO.

Thanx to everyone for their input thus far. If anyone has a different idea, please post a message.

Phil

 

[realm174]

Here's something else to try... in your cmos, you most likely have an option to disable your IDE channels. Disable them both, see how that goes.. (then your HDD won't get detected of course). If it boots from a floppy, try enabling only the primary IDE channel, and see how that goes... If you're back to the same, disable primary, enable secondary, see how that goes...

 

[DorothyDix]

If something has "blown" on the motherboard,there are a couple of common places you can check,just to save time. Most,if not ALL,motherboards have a few power transistors and voltage regulators. These look like a black plastic block about 10mm square with 3 legs. If these are blown,generally you will notice brown or blck burn marks on the board around them or even a physical hole in the block itself. If that's happened you would've heard it! Also search for little electro capacitors that may have bloated or burst(again you'd hear it) Any scorching around a component is usually a sign that it's dead.

Tracks can break or burn out and solder joints can be dry,not allowing a proper connection.
Just another thought...have you added any extra drives or CD players lately? May be you need to upgrade your power supply to handle any extra load.

Just some thoughts

PAUL

 

[DBSSP]

It could be a major conflict with the DMI addresses, but this I can honestly say I've never seen before unless the memory controller or an IDE channel is blowing out. I hope you don't have to replace the board but I think your right. IT's possible it just said enough is enough.

It's got a few, not a couple, a few years against it. Gigabyte discontinued it long ago. 1998 was the actual date when it was approved by AMD (or at least a counter part GA-586AX). Time to nail down a board and upgrade, sorry friend. But hey , I could be wrong and you could be wrong too. See what else pans out. You never know when it could be the stupidest thing in the world (you know a head-smacker kinda thing, lol). Let us all know the eventual outcome though! Good luck.

Jay

"Jeezus-sqeezits Bob!"

 

[Crustyoldbloke]

Paul, Realm and Jay

Thanx again. Nothing has been added since December 2000 and that was a webcam. Just tried disabling both IDE's with a floppy in A - still the same. Had a good look around the MOBO with a powerful torch. Everything looks good.

I'll have a word with a PC builder in a couple of hours time, it's 1644 hrs here now, and he may have a trick or two worth checking.

Keep it coming guys, never give up.

Phil (Getting older and crustier as we speak)

 

[wolluf]

Quite a lot going on here! Can I just go back to the 'skinny' approach. You could try disconnecting all drives as well (hard, floppy, CD). It may then try to boot - obviously won't find a drive, but you'll get message saying so. If it still sticks at same place, I'd suggest mobo problem. If it doesn't, connect something that should boot (hard drive or floppy with boot disk) & go from there.

 

[Ashaman074]

One other thing to suggest, make sure ANY/ALL USB devices are disconnected! I have come across a couple PCs lately that will not boot if a USB device is attached & powered on!

Might not be your problem, but one of those "I-can't-believe-it-that-is-so-stupid" type things just to keep in mind if you come across a PC that will not boot.

Asha'man

 

[Crustyoldbloke]

Thanx Wollof

I'll give it a try. I'm just listening to a thunderstorm getting closer and closer, so it may to wait until the storm passes.

You know what they say "Thunderbolts and lightning very very frightening indeed".

I'm going to pull some plugs out of the wall I think for safety purposes.

Cheers
Phil

 

[DorothyDix]

I just keep coming back here...can't resist! I was thinking about similar problems that've cropped up in the past and in the depths of my crusty old brain,I found a possibility.
Assuming your MB is a standard ATX setup,there's a double PS2 connector on the left hand corner or thereabouts,the top one of course,is for the mouse and the lower,for the keyboard. The computer won't work without a keyboard plugged in. Give the little chrome box a bit of a wiggle and see if it might be loose...it can often work its way free of solder or crack a link,if the keyboard/mouse is moved or under any stress sometimes.(eg. caught under something at the back of the PC)
Just basing this on past experience.

Hope it helps again.

PAUL

 

[ceh4702]

why was scsi on the boot order are you using a scsi hard drive??? If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[GrandpaCarl]

Paul,

I have been around the track many times and I know how frustrating it can be to turn over rock after rock and never find the worm.

It seems you are getting further into the bootup that I had first thought. When you try to bootup from the floppy, is it true that the floppy access light turns on and you hear some disk activity? I, for the moment cannot remember the "verifying pool data" phrase, so don't know how far you are getting.

Are you sure that the floppy is, indeed bootable? Have you tried it in another computer? If you put a blank formatted floppy in and try to boot, do you get a no systems message?

While I totally disagree that the CMOS memory battery could have anything to do with the problem, it is still possible that it is as simple as that. Keep in mind that it is in the CMOS that the boot order is stored. I would be more inclined to believe that the problem is in something like the Autoexec.bat or Config.sys files.

I don't know what you might have in your autoecec.bat file, but you might try a blank floppy with a simple autoexec.bat file with just a bunch of echo statements in it to see if the Autoexec.bat file is being executed. If it is, then try cutting your autoexec,bat file down to the barest of needed statements.

I know you keep thinking that the computer was working at position A, and nothing changed before you moved it to position B. Keep in mind that it is entirely possible that something could have changed, such as a file being damaged, but you just did not notice it because that file was not called upon until the next bootup - at position B!

As far as you can remember, did you install anything during the last booted up interval while in position A? Did you get any hanging program that seemed to go away just by terminating the program, but not forcing you to reboot?

The reasons I asked some of the above questions above is because it has happened to me - more than once! It doesn't take a virus to do damage - sometimes Windows can do it all by itself! Oh the wi\eirdies I could tell upi about! If it were just in the HDD bootup, I would suggest getting a fresh copy of the CDI.EXE file (in Win\systems directory).

A damaged MBR could also give you fits, as would a damaged FAT table, but there again, that would only happen with the HDD.

Hopefully I have given you something to think about, and just maybe help you find the worm! We have not forgotten you or your plight, and if any other crazy ideas come to mind, we will shoot them down.

GrandpaCarl

 

[Crustyoldbloke]

Thunderstorm has now passed and I have disconnected all drives, booted, no messages, other than "verifying DMI pool data".

Connected A, booted, same. Disconnected A, reconnected D, same. Disconnected D, reconnected C, same. Drive A light comes on, slider on floppt moves and an attempt at reading noise.

Boot order as previously mentioned is default, there isn't an "A,C,D" option, but i have tried ALL of the others anyway.

Tried booting with a non-system disk, same, no messages.

Had a look at the double PS2, firm, no signs of movement etc. Tried booting without keyboard and got error message "keyboard error, no keyboard present" so at least that's working.

This is looking less like a MOBO problem now since it does exactly as predicted other than boot up. Don't think it can be software since it aint getting that far.

Where should I shoot the darn thing to put it out of its misery?

Phil

 

[mudskipper]

Hope you don't mind me throwing this into the mess, but I just can't resist such a good challenge!!!

I am unclear...have you tried booting with NO hard drives in the system? Step 2 is VERY important when trying it! What you want to do is
1)unhook all hard drives
2)go into BIOS, into Standard Setup and *manually* change the IDE to none or auto. (Some BIOSes will have a seperate option to autodetect IDE devices. If you use this and it does not detect a drive where one was previously listed, then it will leave the old IDE settings in BIOS).
3)try to boot to a floppy.
Same problem??

Also, let's go back to the initial problem...you mentioned that your system gave an error in windows about not finding the mouse...I know that it is a horrible long shot, but have you tried unhooking the mouse (leave keyboard in) and booting? I have actually seen two or three computers that the mouse *actually* was the problem....not common!!!

Good luck!!!! ----------------------------------------
Groucho Marx said it best...
"A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five."

 

[GrandpaCarl]

HI PHIL,

Still bugged by the DMI data pool business, I did some searching around and the only thing I could find seemed to be the Desktop Management Interface that supposedly was designed by a consortium of manufacturere, but I only know of it existing on Dell computers.

Is your computer a Dell, and if so, what model? I have a Son that is in tech support at Dell, and maybe he can give me some clues. Scott Mueller blames Intel for DMI. I am suspicious that the motherboard bios has some extra checking stuff that if finding something wrong and is trying to report it to you but can't.

Did you perchance change your mouse or keboard and not mention it? Just grasping for straws!

GrandpaCarl

 

[Crustyoldbloke]

Hi Mudskipper

Yep, tried no mouse, same, tried no drives with IDE on AUTO, same. Tried with IDE on NONE same.

Thanx for trying.

This has got to be something really simple, and probably too simple for any of us.

Phil

 

[Crustyoldbloke]

Hi Grandpa Carl

Always wondered what DMI stood for. Just to put you properly in the picture, on booting "verifying DMI pool data" is the last message from the BIOS, before the software takes over.

My PC is not a Dell, but it has been working fine since purchase in 1999. Software, I can deal with, but hardware!!!!!! that's different.

Phil

 

[mudskipper]

DMI pool is on most motherboards at this time, not just Dells.

Forgive the following...it is a VERY basic explanation!
DMI data is *basically* passing off the info from your BIOS and POST to a location where it can be grabbed by your OS as the OS loads. A bit of a trade of info. Now, most (not all) BIOSes will show a "success" after this has completed. If you have a configuration problem, then this transfer will not complete. If you get a Success message, then the transfer is complete, and now you (generally) look at the software portion of the boot process (autoexec.bat, OS load, whatever).

Hangs in this portion of boot on a system that does not normally put the "success" message are a pain in the butt because we don't know what exactly we are fighting...this is why it is good to unhook hard drives first thing when diagnosing this! ----------------------------------------
Groucho Marx said it best...
"A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five."

 

[Crustyoldbloke]

To everyone reading this thread. Whilst we all ponder, here's some deep thinking on computers:

1. Cannot find REALITY.SYS. Universe halted.
2. As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
3. COFFEE.EXE missing - Insert Cup and Press Any Key.
4. Southern DOS: Y'all reckon? (Yep/Nope)
5. Buy a Pentium 586/90 so you can reboot faster.
6. Backups! We don' NEED no steenking backups.
7. 4 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
8. E Pluribus Modem
9. Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes
10. File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
11. Ethernet : Something used to catch the Etherbunny
12. Computers are not intelligent; they only think they are
13. A main-frame: The biggest PC peripheral available.
14. My software never has bugs. lt just develops undocumented features.
15. An error? Impossible! My modem is error-correcting
16. C:\WINDOWS C:\WINDOWS\GO C:\PC\CRAWL
17. CONGRESS.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot Washington D.C. (Y/N)?
18. C:\DOS C:\DOS\RUN RUN\DOS\RUN
19. <-------- The information went data way
20. Does fuzzy logic tickle?
21. Best file compression around- &quot;DEL *.*&quot; = 100% compression
22. A computer's attention span is as long as its power cord.
23. The Definition of an Upgrade: Take old bugs out, put new ones in.
24. 11th commandment: Covet not thy neighbor's Pentium
25. BREAKFAST.COM Halted .. Cereal Port Not Responding
26. 24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case...Coincidence???
27. The name is Baud, James Baud.
28. Disinformation is not as good as datinformation.
29. BUFFERS FILES 2nd down, 4th quarter, 5 yards to go
30. Windows: Just another pane in the glass.
31. SENILE.COM found... Out Of Memory...
32. Access denied! Nah nah na na nah nah!
33. Who's General Failure & why is he reading my disk??
34. C:\>Bad command or file name! Go stand in the corner!
35. Ultimate office automation: Net-worked coffee.
36. Bad command. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay!
37. RAM disk is NOT an installation procedure.
38. Why doesn't DOS ever say 'EXCELLENT'
39. Shell to DOS, Come in DOS, do you COPY?
40. All computers wait at the same speed.
41. Computer: A device designed to speed and automate errors.
42. Go ahead, make my data!
43. Smash forehead on keyboard to continue...
44. Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue...
45. ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!
46. E-mail returned to sender: Insufficient voltage.
47. Help! I'm modeming... and I can't hang up!!!
48. All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
49. Error! Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue.
50. DOS Tip #1701: Add DEVICE=FNGRCROS.SYS to CONFIG.SYS
51. Hidden DOS secret: Add BUGS=OFF to your CONFIG.SYS
52. Press any key to continue or any other key to quit...
53. Press any key... no, No, NO!! Not THAT one!

Frustrating isn't it?

Phil

 

[GrandpaCarl]

HI PHIL,

One more thing for you to try. When you get the hangup, press the F8 key and see if it does anything. Next time try hitting F1 key.

I found some interesting data on DMI at:

http://www.intel.com/support/tokenexpress/pro/11601.htm

While this blurb is somewhat about NICs, it also gives you a clue to what DMI is.

Do you have a NIC or any card in your system that might have an auxiliary bios? It might be that your video card is &quot;DMI compliant&quot; and its bios is coming into play. Try replacing your video if at all possible. Who knows what evil may lay in there!

As you can see, I am still trying to help, though I have a dozen other things that need doing.

You never did say what your computer/bios/motherboard were.

GrandpaCarl