Paging with station port on a 500 w/8.1.69 7

[chazrc]

We are trying to use a analog station port on a V1 500 to page through Bogen equipment.
The Bogen will not answer, or pick up when attempting to use the station port to call it. Bogen says it needs 60v minimum before it will respond to the IPO.

Before I buy a trunk card for the IPO and do it that way, is there a device to get the 60v that the Bogen PCMTIM requires?

The customer wants to page the overhead and the digital phones at the same time.

Thanks

Chaz

 

[chazrc]

they do want that. Could not figure out the issue when using the station port

 

[Westi]

you can always do what we had to do with the old Magix system, open a phone and take the speaker wires and feed them into the amp. Messy work but those days the only option to make simultaneous paging work.
I am glad those days are over even though I still have a couple of customers with that setup.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

 

[NortelAvayaBlue]

smokinjoe2938 is correct if you need to do dry pair to paging. (4th post) "I have used a 600 ohm resistor across the tip pair on the station port to do this and works great"

set as paging speaker. create a short code for dial paging. put a resistor across tip a nd ring. you can test with an off-hook butt set to simulate a resistor too.

i use a 330 ohm 1/2 watt resistor. 330 ohm seem to not get hot like a 600 ohm will.

 

[Westi]

the problem with the 600 Ohm resistor is that it is not needed if you have a proper paging amp with a T/R input.
@NortelAvayaBlue
Also using 330 Ohms instead means that whatever is internal in the IPO will take more of the energy and might kill your board over time faster as you have higher amps but less energy on the resistor meaning higher amps on the internal circuit so more energy there.

I have never had the need for a resistor except in the old IP400 days when I plugged one in to reboot to activate the paging port but that one I took out when installing the IPO permanently.
I really don't get these workarounds, why do that rather than using proper parts designed to do the job. The part is called WMT1A and you get it for $30-45 depending where you shop.

People treat paging like rocket science but it is not, it is simple and straight forward and requires sometimes the reading of the manual delivered with the parts like zone controllers, pre-amps etc but it is still as basic as it gets. Basic electronic knowledge doesn't hurt but even that is not all that important because there are only 2 different interfaces for the input and a few (usually well labelled with 25V, 70V and some with 100V) output interfaces.

There are probably 100 threads here over the last years all with the same issue, weird but true.

The time it takes to post here and wait for answers compared with having a WMT1A in the truck and test it with that is huge so my advice to all techs get a WMT1A from your boss or if you are the boss buy one. It will save you a lot of time one day in the near future and it is not a patch job like a resistor punched down with the wires of the IPO output.

I have done so many service calls that should have been a 10 minute job but took me 2 or more hours because I had to fix wiring that was falling apart as soon as I started troubleshooting due to these shortcuts that I am really absolutely against stuff like that.
Rant end sorry if that sounds like a personal attack, it is not.
It is a general statement expressing my aversion against any kind of shortcuts in live. But let's not get into that one as the number of my pet peeves are too many to write in a thread. That would require a book.
A really thick book


Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

 

[NortelAvayaBlue]

Thanks Westi!!!
Understood about the resistance... makes sense.
In my applications thus far, customers don’t want to spend any money these days even if its 30 bucks. And in my particular situation this customer is a retail chain that has me ripping out Nortel BCMs for IPO's. 200 plus stores. 30 x 200 = $6000. They don’t hear things like $6000 now will/could save you $20,000 maybe later.
The current paging equipment for the stores is valcom delay pager and Bogen head units, and for some reason they don’t play nice with IPO's. For less than 10 cents I solved the issue at the same time explaining it to the customer the nature of the solution, and they signed off on it. I place it in a Biscuit jack between the IPO wiring frame and the paging equipment so it’s easily serviced and accessible.

!!!!!! Guys/Gals, for new installs, try using a Bogen DFT120. That DOES play nice with the IPO. No resistor or WMT1A’s are needed.

I like the WMT1A, for my conversion from BCM to IPO. Seems like a solid permanent solution. I will have my sale engineers add that to future quotes so it’s “buried” in the total cost.

On a side note... why can’t Avaya just get it right from the start with the IPO without adding gadgets and doohickeys? ... Never had this problem with Nortel BCMs or Norstar, never once, ever, ever, ever, when it came to paging.

Westi - where do you find the WMAT1A at the cheapest cost? Again a descent solution with a professional looking connection point.

 

[amriddle01]

I've said it before and will say it again, the relay port on the back of the system would better serve as a page port, it would get far more use. Or just add a page port, there is plenty of room....and need for it, rather than adapting an analogue extn port



"No problem monkey socks

 

[Westi]

NortelAvayaBlue
I shop a lot online these days, makes it so easy to do at night while watching a movie and Amazon is good for a lot but mostly not for pricing, ebay has sometimes good deals and I buy stuff if the price is right even if I don't need it at the time.
The DFT120 is great and solves the darn feedback that sometimes drives customers up the wall but it is also $750 so a WMT1A with a 100W amp is still cheaper

Page port on IPO would make sense and was asked for so many times that my tongue is already missing pieces from the repetition.

The answer Avaya tier 3 and 4 gave me was usually: "there is nothing wrong with that analog port if proper paging equipment is being used and we don't support anything else"
Nice and Avaya at its finest.
Maybe with the new IP Office 600 there will be a paging port

oh sorry they want to go all virtual now so they will provide a virtual server with a virtual paging interface that is paging you virtually everywhere but over speakers, LOL.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

 

[amriddle01]

Yes, Avaya make the same mistake every time...mistaking their own opinion for fact and assuming their BPs and customers don't know what they really want until they tell them what they want, and what they've asked for so far is old fashioned nonsense



"No problem monkey socks

 

[Splic3d]

The Bogan DFT 120 or the Viking FBI-1A both will answer a station port well and send a contact closure if needed, but to get the phone page and overhead at the same time may be a problem.
The WMT-1 is great for an interface to the amp as it will help eliminate noise problems from the paging. Paging though being simple circuit, can be the most "frustrating" thing to deal with. Thus one would want to start with a bigger hammer...

http://www.i3techgroup.com

If its not working, get a bigger hammer!

Avaya/Nortel/NEC/Asterisk/Access Control/CCTV/DSX/Acti/UCx

 

[crumthwacket]

When the system "came over here" about 10 years ago I was asked for improvements/suggestions and I told them a page port would be helpful. Their response was "good idea."

I guess the engineer I spoke with quit.

The (apparent) desk-centric design engineers at Avaya need to go out in the field and see how many installations "go south" because they ignore our feedback. Paging should be a piece of cake - why has it become so difficult? There are a good number of posts on this site about this. We installers aren't dumb, but we're made to feel that way because the design of the IP Office seems to change from release to release. That's unacceptable.

Cone on guys - get your stuff together, please! I was embarrassed today when I had to look at the help files for an IPO Partner Edition Installation/ Auto Attendant because it was so different from IPO Essential edition.

 

[Westi]

there is a good institution out there from the old Nortel days where BP's are sitting together with Avaya and telling them the ways it should go.
Avaya doesn't always respond fast (or at all) but it is a method to steer them a little bit.

https://www.pccamericas.org

there are different forums for different things and SME is one good one where you get monthly conference calls and can make suggestions. The latest TechTip with the voice quality on PRI is a result from it because a vendor got ignored and when he mentioned it on here Tier 4 jumped right on it and tracked it to the point where it got solved and published for all others to follow.
They have conferences 2 times a year and it is great to go and meet other people in the same boat as you are and caht directly with Avaya guys about the problems that are encountered in the field.
Nortel started that but obviously didn't listen enough and went belly up. Membership is free an only the conferences are paid for because the place where they are need to get paid for. I went 3 times so far and I loved the results.

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

 

[budbyrd]

I have to give Westi a star for his rant. Paging isn't rocket science and resistors are always a bad idea. Having been doing this kind of work for the last quarter century I can't believe the number of bad ideas in this thread. Sorry to those I might offend but Please use the right parts.

A genius doesn't solve problems, he prevents them~~!!~~

 

[NortelAvayaBlue]

agreed not the best solution, but it works when its 7PM at night and the only thing open is a Radio Shack... FYI when I was speaking to 3rd tier Avaya support about yet another issue the IPO can't get right, I asked about paging and right from the Avaya support engineer, they told me resistor is would be one way they would recommend. He then told me he has suggested to R&D that in the new cabinet to add a page port with contactors. PM me and I can tell you the tech I spoke with and the date.

Westi - thanks for the info, our sales engineer is now adding the VMT-1 to all new quotes.

BTW if I were to tear open a VMT-1 guess what I would find in there... a circuit card with a resistor.

This site is a helpful tech forum, not an opinion forum of practice. instead say, example: "a resistor may work but here is a better solution, etc etc etc", leave out comments based in opinion, or personal experience of best practice. We want users to reply with solutions and not to be afraid that their ideas (right or wrong) will being ridiculed or talked down too. Its not positive. Suggestions without bias about better solutions are.

 

[Westi]

Sorry NortelAvayaBlue if it came over as talking down or ridiculing, that was not my intend at all.
As for being biased, that is something you can't really avoid after 29 years in the field you find things that are just making your toe nails curl up and telling about them to others might help them avoid problems in the future that I have gone through or had to go through due to practices like before mentioned.

Hope that doesn't prevent you in any way or form to participate in this forum, on the question side as well as the answer side.




Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

 

[chazrc]

All really great support, and comforting to know the members here will respond when you need it.

Thanks again everyone!!

Chaz