Opinions on this lab setup

[Stumpa]

Hi everyone,

I'm just starting out on my CCNA in fact I'm looking at making a career change and will at some point continue on to CCNP, I've been searching and reading and I was wondering what you guys thought of this setup on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120356340993&ssPageName=ADME:X:BOCOR:US:1123

My plan will be to add better equipment over time, as my skill increases but I'm getting some classroom training later in this month and would like to get up and running before that so I can make the best of the teachers and training. Is this setup worth 500? Is it ok to have only one router with 12.4? Also I did some work for a startup that fell though and they paid me partially in equipment, So I have a cisco catalyst 4507r that's been sitting in a closet for almost a year now. will I be able to use this in my ccna studies?

Thanks in advance.

 

[burtsbees]

You can get all of that for $350-$400 separately. Plus, you will want three routers and 3 switches. Switches can be 2900XL series, but preferrably 2950's, as they do more VTP wise (RSTP, etc). The routers you will want are maybe a 2503, a 2620, and a 2610XM. You will want at least two WIC-1T cards and two DB-60 DCE/DTE back2back serial cables (like $3 each for 3-footers). Price all that separately and you tell me.

Burt

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Stumpa,

First - make sure you have read the blog about setting up a CCNA Lab by Wendell Odom, CCIE and Cisco Press author at Network World, this is a 9 part series and has lots of info you want to know -

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/24916

As for your post at Ebay - I think he is a tad on the high side, I just went to Cables and Kits

http://www.cablesandkits.com

and put together the routers and switches for $285, this did not include the cables and the WIC and the Network Module but these would not run another $200, not that I would want any 2501 routers with 8DRAM and 8 FLASH (you will also need to add $12 each for Ethernet tranceivers for the AUI ports on the 2501 routers).

You could get the same 2501's for $20 each at Cables and Kits (and cheaper if you watch Ebay) and for $50 each you could get these with 16/16 - max DRAM and FLASH.

The 3640 would be the center of my lab, not my Frame Relay switch as this is the only router that can do SDM and 12.4 IOS in the bunch, once again at Cables and Kits you could get this with max DRAM and FLASH, as well as a Ethernet Network module for not much more, just wait for Billy to check in, he has bought several of these 3640's there. You could even watch for a deal on Ebay on a 3640 with max DRAM and FLASH.

If I had this lab, I would use the 2610 as the Frame Relay switch, this is what I have in my labs at home and work, the only good thing is the 2610 has max FLASH and DRAM but you still don't have a Fast Ethernet port in the lab - something you will want for router-on-a-stick/VLANs etc. Just to let you know, I got 2 2610's with the same 4 port serial network module on Ebay for $33 with max DRAM and FLASH - you can find better deals, you just have to hunt for them and don't think you need to get it in 1 feel swoop!!

I know it is nice to have everything come in 1 box but you can do better for the same stuff, however I think you should read the blog, look for 3640 routers and 26xxXM routers at the very least. Having 1 or 2 2500's in the mix would be ok, just understand that these are not selling for much any more and you could, in many cases find a 2611,2610 or 2612 for just a little more.

As for switches, YOU REALLY WANT A 2950 switch, in fact you should have 3 switches - READ THE BLOG!!!!!!

NOW, if you must have this lab - make an offer to him, if you look at his history of sales on this lab, he has accepted 4 offers as well as several people who paid FULL PRICE - like I said, I could go to a retail place - Cables and Kits and buy the same equipment for $215 less but I think you could do better getting the pieces you really will want for CCNA and CCNP beyound that!!!

Hope this helps!!



E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[burtsbees]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-CCNA-CCNP...4|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1307|301:1|293:1|294:50

That is a better deal. The 2610 will do router-on-a-stick with the right image. I just did it for my buddy's network last week.

Burt

 

[Stumpa]

Thanks for the replies! I found that blog after I posted this question. I'll start reading it now. So do I only need one router with 12.4? And what about the 4507r catalyst I have, can I add that into the mix. One more question, CiscoGuy33 on the website you posted, if I buy a router from there does it already have the IOS on it?

Thanks again everyone for your patience in answering these questions.

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Burt,

Yeah, I keep forgeting that with the right IOS you can do the "router-on-a-stick" with a 2611/2610

The link you posted is better, but $90 for shipping seems high ----- however, the CD of software .......... might be worth dealing with this guy but I would want to check "how much to upgrade to at least 1 2950 switch" AND looking at upgrading to a 26xxXM router to get a Fast Ethernet interface AND a router that will run 12.4 IOS as well as do SDM !!!

As for the CD - this is something that is very hard to put a value on $$$$$$, I have on several occasions paid a little more for a router or switch to get a "collection" of software etc. THESE CAN BE GREAT !!!!! AND worth the extra shipping etc. Just got a router with 3 DVDs of stuff

Stumpa,

I got a 3620 router from C & K (in Atlanta) and if I remember it did have an IOS on it when it came, I would call or email them and ASK, if not finding IOSs can be done, and if you look at past posts it has been discussed or just Google "find Cisco IOS" and you will see several ways both legit and not so legit.

One that was dicussed at the Cisco Learning Network is to actually contact a Cisco sales rep (for end of life systems) and ask for one for lab use only, just remember that these guys are busy, HOWEVER, they are not stupid, if you get your CCNA/CCNP etc. you MIGHT be back with them buying for your boss or a customer Soooooo, if they are not busy, they may be willing to work with you for the chance that you will be a customer in the future!

And Cables and Kits is just 1 example - in other words - DON'T rush into anything, take your time and LEARN, be a picky shopper and really look at the deals - you might miss one or two but trust me - another will be right along!!! They ALWAYS are

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Stumpa,

As for your Cisco Catalyst 4507R (7-slot: redundant Supervisor Engine capable) - it could be used to some extent but it would depend on what it has in the 7 slots, as well as what IOS it is running - most likly CAT OS.

This might come into play more for your CCNP Switching exam, but for CCNA I would stick to 2950's and 2924-XL-EN switches - 3 of them. I have seen 2950's going for $70-$100 on Ebay so they are not that bad and you can get 2924-XL-EN's for from $20 to $50 each.

I know you want to use that switch for something, I was the same way, but I learned what I needed and what I could just get to play with for yucks and giggles I have several Cisco switches/routers that for the price, I just could not turn down. Some I have used, some are doorstops :-(

Hope this helps!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[Stumpa]

Thanks for the help you guys are great. I looked at the link Burt posted. If I upgrade one of the switches and add in the 2620xm with 128/48 and the shipping it ends up being $568. With the extra stuff he's adding in that doesn't seem so bad. That will give me plenty to get started with and give me time to find a good deal on another switch.

Thanks again.

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Stumpa,

Like I said it is very hard to put a price $$$$$$$$ on that CD

With the upgrades, the CD, current IOSs and the cables - sounds like a deal - you will find it such a help to have a lab and not a sim or an emulator, but a lab where you have to hook the cables together and plug stuff in and see what it actually looks and feels like - very important part of the learning

Have fun and ask questions and soon you will be answering questions

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[maczen]

There is some really good information here!

Stumpa,
You may want to take a peek at this software (freeware as well as commercial versions) IOSHunter as a possible means of obtaining an IOS for lab use (non-production). That said, I do not imply anything regarding legality etc. LoL

http://www.vitaltech-group.com/IOSHunter.htm

Or you could email a Cisco SE and request a temporary CCO login and a couple of specific IOS releases once you have your hardware "picked out"... You can determine what IOS version does what here...

http://www.cisco.com/go/fn

Also, you are definitely making the right choice as a lab is the best learning aide, hands down! But you can always compliment it with an emulator such as GNS3! When you have a few hours of free time play around with it as you can even add a few virtual routers into your REAL lab topology (Microsoft loopback.. you will see)!

http://www.gns3.net

And a couple of good video training sites for Cisco using GNS3...

http://www.blindhog.net

http://www.brainbump.net

Finally, the best (these are not free) CBT (Computer Based Training) videos around on the CISCO subject! Jeremy Cioara is the CCNA instructor and definitely worth the investment if/when you can afford it!

http://www.cbtnuggets.com

Oh, and the best Cisco lab router in the world the 3640! (LoL couldn't resist guys!) Available from the site mentioned above..

http://www.cablesandkits.com

(You get a pack of M&M's with your purchase! LoL)

........

OK.. I lied.. one final thing... Just in case you don't know.. Download PuTTy or KiTTy.. I like PuTTy!

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/

And you will want a TFTP server as well.. Here is the best freebie in my opinion! (The advanced subnet calculator is nice for checking your IP subnetting answers later on too!)

http://www.solarwinds.com/products/freetools/

Boson has a free subnet calculator too plus a free RIP generator which is pretty nice while you are stuck with only one router! (I haven't used this one but it looks good and Boson is a big name)

http://www.boson.com/FreeUtilities.html

Alright, now I have to go back to my CCNA Security studies!!!

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Billy,

You said - "

http://www.cablesandkits.com

(You get a pack of M&M's with your purchase! LoL)" I forgot about the pack of M&Ms - that puts any deal from C&K OVER THE TOP!!!!

Just kidding - Cables and Kits is a GREAT retailer with very good prices when you DON'T feel like jacking around with Ebay/auctions. Think of it as "Buy it Now"

I hope Stumpa reports back on the lab he got, I would love to get some of the "training CDs" it came with for "evall" purposes


E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[silverhairb]

Stumpa,

I'm such a 3640 bigot that I just have to put my two cents worth in here. A 3640 with max'ed memory and a couple of ethernet or fast ethernet ports will run around $100 on eBay. Its a little larger than a 2620XM, but is a higher performance router. Most of the ones on eBay are fully depreciated and their value should stay pretty steady. So if/when you sell, you should get out of it what you put in it.

OTOH, if you're even remotely considering going to a very high bandwidth internet connection (as in 60mbs), then for a very few bucks more than a 3640, you can snag a 3660. Its a big stud of a router, a real Tim Allen Tool Time model for home use. But it will handle pretty much anything a home or small business can throw at it and not break a sweat. And most of them come standard with two fast ethernet ports.

3660s are not losing their value at all, especially since home internet connection speeds are moving up.

[the other] Bill

 

[maczen]

Bill pushes the 3660 the way I used to push the 3640 (Not that I have really changed LoL)

B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Billy,

Bill better stop "pushing" that 3660 or he'll end up with a hernia

I am afraid to order one for fear that UPS will pull up with a tractor trailer to deliver it

Just kidding Bill, I have been watching 3725's and the price of 2950 switches is dropping!!!!!

You can get 2950-C's and 2950-G's for $99 WOW!!!!

But as a sweet spot - the 3640 seems to be it - runs the 12.4 IOS, the only downside is putting a Fast Ethernet module in it and you are almost at the price of the 3725, which has several NM slots as well as WIC slots and 2 Fast Ethernet interfaces!

Now I am looking at notebook computers - about $300 to $400 with 10inch screen, I want to load my study material and take it with me to work, coffee shop etc. I like the ASUS.

Just some thoughts!

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[silverhairb]

Those 3660s are horses. They are faster than a 3640 and hold their value at least as well as their smaller brother. They also have twice the flash and DRAM capacity so there's no problem running any IOS. The 3640 has some limitations for storing IOS, some of the later IOS versions with expanded feature sets must be loaded at boot time from a tftp server. That's great practice the first couple of times, please don't ask me to do that every time the router gets powered up. No issues like that with a 3660. It maxes out with 64meg of flash. More than enough to hold any IOS.

When (more than "if") homes and small businesses start getting really high speed connectivity - I'm talking about 60mbs - then the 3660 2FE is a better choice for a router after users are done with their lab. Throw in the reliability of "built in" dual power supplies and a 3660 looks like a very robust solution for fast, reliable internet access after the lab has served its purpose.

At price points very close to 3640, the 3660 comes with at least one FE, most with 2 FE. So that cuts the need for purchasing NMs for ethernet.

The 3640s are very good routers. Don't misunderstand me. They are fast, inexpensive and a great training platform for a lab. And they are very reliable for home and small business use after the lab has been retired. They are faster than the 2600 and 2600XM series of router. The 3660s are almost twice as fast as a 3640.

The biggest benefit of the 3640s over the 3660s is their size. The 3660 is a big brute intended for rack mounting in a data center. It can be stacked or placed on a table, but its better in a rack even for home use. A 3660 looks industrial. The 3640 can easily be placed on a shelf or desktop. It'll take some room, but won't dominate the environment like a 3640.

Both the 3640 and 3660 routers are noisy, kinda like a PC from a few years ago. This might make them unsuitable for certain home or small business applications. But they are more reliable and perform MUCH better than new consumer-grade home-networking junk that costs more than a used 3640 or 3660. (Don't get me started on cheap home networking crap!)

Anyway, that's my rationale for preferring the 3660 over the 3640.

[the other] Bill

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Bill,

You are correct - the nice thing is that few people know what a 3660 is so you don't get in bidding wars as you do with 871's, 26xxXM's and 3640's etc.

Also the Fast Ethernet ports - adding 2 Fast Ethernet ports to a 3640 will jack the price another $100 to $200.

And the 64 mgs FLASH does make sense for any IOS as well as adding things like CME.

Noise never bothers me in fact I like the "white noise" of several switches, routers and hubs humming along in my office. And I sleep in a room with a floor fan running summer and winter - even with the A/C or heat on - I can not sleep in a room with no noise

Bill, I do like the 3725 - all the advantages of the 3660 but in a smaller package - a little more expensive :-(

Just some thoughts!


E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[silverhairb]

Gene,

How can you tell if its winter or summer?

I've tried to snag a couple of 3725s, but the bid seems to end at least $100 above what I consider the value of the router for me. The other advantage is that its a newer router. Might not mean much today, but could in a few years.

Seems like prices hit bottom about a month to six weeks ago. Starting to creep back up again. (Is the economy recovering?)

[the other] Bill

 

[CiscoGuy33]

Bill,

I like it cold, however I have an electric blanket sooooo in winter the window is open, fan is on and electric blanket is cranked I am a Cisco Guy ...... What can I say

As for the 3725, one guy has had one Buy it now for $275 with free shipping - seems like a good price, not sure what your bids are getting to. Has been relisted several times - gotta wonder what I am missing!

I missed a 3745 that had several NM's and WIC's and seemed to be "new in the box" at least it had all the docs, rack ears, cables etc. still in orginal packing - went for like $500 which I would say was a steal for the guy that got it because the WICs and NM were about $300 alone!!!

Trouble with 3745's and 3725's is that you are up against some CCIEs - sooo glad many are turning to emulators now (MORE FOR ME !!!!)

E.A. Broda
CCNA, CCDA, CCAI, Network +

 

[silverhairb]

I saw 3660 2FE routers ending auctions for as low as $50+shipping not that long ago. Its a little more today, but there are still a couple that are out there pretty cheap.

I got my 3660 for $125 inc. shipping. Needed a little memory which I found around the house, and $30 worth of flash. I still consider that pretty good for what I got.

[the other] Bill

 

[maczen]

I have not been pricing the 37xx's but will take a look later on after the move/cruise! They should have dropped by then! I honestly can't wait to restructure the lab! (Probably for CCSP)...

Dell PowerEdge 6650
------------------
ACS
NAC
MARS

Sun SunFire VT120
-----------------
RADIUS Server for 802.1X/EAPOL

2x 3640 (Inside/Outside[Perimeter])
1x 3640 Zone-Based FW in between the other two w/ 2x DMZ

3x 2950 (One inside and one in each DMZ w/ all switchport/port-security/bpduguard/rootguard etc and SPAN)

That is how I will setup some of the devices that I already have but also want to nab some of these models on down the line!
1x ASA-5505/5510
?x Catalyst 3550/3560
1x 28xx series router (Maybe an 18xx but want 28xx)
2x IDS 4210/4215 (to play w/ fail-over and load-sharing inline)
Eventually will break down and buy a core switch! Have been kicking myself for not driving down to DC and buying that 6509 that was on Craig's List! Anyway, that is all in the future after I handle all of the stuff I have going on now.. like moving etc.


B Haines
CCNA R&S, ETA FOI