One hundred and what?

[mscallisto]

Most say 103 as one hundred and three.

I believe it should be one hundred three (no and) if it represents one count.

There are one hundred three apples on that tree.

There are one hundred and three implies there are two groups being counted.

There are one hundred and three pieces of fruit in the basket, mostly apples but three are oranges.

Am I correct or do I need grammar lessons?

 

[mbarron]

chessbot,

I'm guessing the part that we differ is the "tenths" part. If I heard one hundred and three, without actually seeing the number, I would assume it is 103 - not 100.3. Without the "tenths" there is no indication of a decimal place.



Mike

 

[chessbot]

Yes, tenths would be more definitive. Also, people's lack of enunciation seems to make these two very similar; it is best, therefore, to be clear.

One hundred and three = 100.3
One hundred three = 103
One hundred 'n' three = ???

--Chessbot

"See the TURTLE of enormous girth!"
-- Stephen King, The Dark Tower series

 

[MikeBarone]

I would write these out as such:

One hundred and three tenths = 100.3
One hundred and three = 103

Picture writing a check for $103:
"One hundred and three dollars -------- 00/100

Mike Barone

http://www.cgiscript.net

"One forgets words as one forgets names. One's vocabulary needs constant fertilizing or it will die."

- Evelyn Waugh

 

[chessbot]

I agree with you. I would not write "one hundred and three" and mean 100.3. I would say "one hundred point three" or something to that order.

Just to throw some other opinions in the mix, check out

http://www.improb.com/news/2001/aug/math101.html.

--Chessbot

"See the TURTLE of enormous girth!"
-- Stephen King, The Dark Tower series

 

[mscallisto]

I would write One hundred three 00/100
It seems others write One hundred and three 00/100

I'm sure both checks will be accepted so I'm guessing after all this discussion, that's all that really counts!

 

[JediBMC]

I was taught that the "and" refers to a decimal when referring to monetary counts. Example:

One hundred three dollars and two cents = $103.02
Comparatively, it seems somewhat awkward to use the “and”:
One hundred and three dollars and two cents = $103.02

Of course this is only as accurate a fact as my memory can reproduce from a very LONG time ago.


-Brian-
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.

 

[MikeBarone]

When referring to a decimal I was taught to say "point." As in, one hundred POINT 3 = 100.3.

Mike Barone

http://www.cgiscript.net

"One forgets words as one forgets names. One's vocabulary needs constant fertilizing or it will die."

- Evelyn Waugh

 

[ESquared]

I agree that "one hundred and three" doesn't refer to two separate counts. It'd be bizarre if that's what a person really meant and expected me to understand.

In countries where decimals are written with a comma as in
100,3

Do they say "one hundred comma three" or do they still say "one hundred point three?"

If you really do want the three to refer to something different than the hundred, you should NAME it:

one hundred apples and three oranges.
one hundred and three-tenths.


As for whether "and" is required, I've wondered that myself. Perhaps a different number could help us decide:

103,000

One hundred and three thousand
One hundred three thousand

103,000,000
One hundred and three million
One hundred three million

I can't decide which one I prefer.

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[MikeBarone]

The "and" seems to link the values (assumed to be read as inclusive). In the absence of "and" it seems as if you are stating two different numbers.

"One hundred three million"

Means to me:
100
3,000,000

No relation between the two. The "and" seems to link them.

Mike Barone

http://www.cgiscript.net

"One forgets words as one forgets names. One's vocabulary needs constant fertilizing or it will die."

- Evelyn Waugh

 

[chessbot]

To me, it depends on the pronunciation:
one hundred three [pause] million = 103,000,000
one hundred [pause or comma] three million = 100, 3,000,000

"One hundred and three million" sounds like two different numbers: one hundred and three million.

Even more confusing is listing numbers in a list: 100, 3000000, 6 = one hundred, three million, and six = one hundred three million and six = 103,000,006.

--Chessbot

 

[mscallisto]

Hmmmm is chesbot the logic minded programmer becomming a convert?

I like the way good programmers think!

 

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

I was taught that the "and" refers to a decimal when referring to monetary counts. Example:

One hundred three dollars and two cents = $103.02
Comparatively, it seems somewhat awkward to use the "and":
One hundred and three dollars and two cents = $103.02

Adding a unit specifier to the end changes things somewhat. Using "point" instead of and removes the need for that.

If I were shopping, I would say:

"One hundred and three pounds and two pence" (formally), or
"Just over a hundred quid" (informally)

If I were in a maths class, I would say either:

"One hundred and three pounds and two pence",
"One hundred and three pounds, two pence", or (less likely)
"One hundred and three point oh two pounds"

But not:

"One hundred and three pounds point oh two", or
"One hundred and three pounds point two pence"

I guess it depends on the context in which you are saying the phrase, as well as regional differences.

Dan

 

[jsteph]

jediBMC
I believe your way is the correct one--I was also taught that in the banking world (and you know the old saw: 'follow the money') the 'and' is only to be used for the cents part of the written amount.

This was not a casual thing either, I was on a major banking software team and prior to writing our routines to print checks, we had an informational seminar. We were told in no uncertain terms that the text-version of the amount had to be written this way, no if's (well, one 'and') or but's about it.
--J

 

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

While not numerical, I do occasionally spot other similar things - usually when reading work by American writers.

Take this example from Wired news today:

"Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season Sunday"

I wouldn't have omitted the "on":

"Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season on Sunday"

I notice this difference a lot between UK and US writing, in much the same way as I notice the missing "and" when talking numbers.

Does anyone know the reason for our friends over-the-pond using 'shortened' English a lot of the time?

Dan

 

[ESquared]

After more thought I now come in on the side advocating no use of the word "and" between the hundreds and the tens/ones words. I observed myself saying numbers out loud in the real world, and I in several cases, the "and" would have been confusing or awkward.

-------------------------------------
It is better to have honor than a good reputation.
(Reputation is what other people think about you. Honor is what you know about yourself.)

 

[sleipnir214]

BillyRayPreacherSon:
I agree that your inclusion of the preposition makes the sentence clearer. But as I see it, it's not the exclusion of the preposition that makes the sentence less clear, but rather that it's badly-written.

The sentence "Ron Artest was suspended Sunday for the rest of the season" is, to my mind, as clear as your correction, but does not require the preposition.


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[donbott]

I think the "and" is used in numbers the same way it is used in any string of items, to note the last item in the string. I ate ham, corn,and bread for dinner. It cost two hundred six dollars and 33 cents

 

[Zathras]

"Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season Sunday"

I believe I would edit this as

"Ron Artest was suspended Sunday for the rest of the season."

It is a clear example of a mis-placed modifier. Unless of course the rest of the season really happens all on one day, next Sunday. (Or the rest of the season actually happened on a past Sunday. it's difficult to tell.)

 

[CajunCenturion]

Ron Artest was suspended Sunday for the rest of the season.

I find that somewhat ambiguous as it is not clear what role Sunday plays, whether it be the time of the annoucement, or part of the suspension period. I find all of the variations of this sentence all suffer the same. It is only in context that we know that Sunday is not part of the suspension period.

It was announced Sunday that Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season.

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[Zathras]

...all of the variations of this sentence all suffer the same.

Completely agree. For example the announcement may well have been made on Monday for an action taken on Sunday (the suspension). Leading to...

It was announced Monday that Ron Artest was suspended Sunday for the rest of the season.