Not Getting System Page "Attention" Beep On Some Extensions. 3

[Dexman]

The setup in question uses a 5 slot carrier with, going from left to right, a Partner 012 expansion module, a Partner Messaging R6.0 and a Partner ACS R6.0 in the center slot. The install is in a church.

I am expanding the system by installing Partner 18D telephones in various classrooms to be used as a kind of paging/intercom system. The paging/intercom telephone sets do not have access to the outside telephone lines. All they can do is ring other extensions or do a system page. The phones in the offices and kitchen are 34D's.

The breakdown of the extensions is as follows:
10-office phone.
11-office phone.
12-office phone.
13-office phone.
14-kitchen phone.
15-office phone.
16 & 17 door phones.
18-29, page & intercom only phones.

I have all active sets in page group 1 so all system page buttons are programmed as "*71".


The setup seems to work quite well except for the fact that the telephones connected to ports 26-29 do not generate the "Attention" beep when the system page button on any telephone has been pressed. There are no audio problems of any kind on any of the extensions, including the ones that fail to "beep". I can also initiate a system page from those 4 sets without any problems and the telephones connected to ports 10-15 & 18-25 do beep when I press the system page button on extensions 26-29. Changing telephones around and/or connecting right to the 012 module does not resolve the issue

I browsed through the R6.0 installation manual to see if I could find anything that talks about a limit to the number of extensions that can be added to a paging group, but I can't seem to find one.

The idea of splitting up the extensions into multiple paging groups was considered, but rejected when the fact that most of the people who would be using the paging/intercom stations not being technically inclined was taken into account. Teaching people to push 1 button was hard enough. Making them push a 2nd button and forcing them repeat their message to accommodate a 2nd page group would be like pulling teeth without novocane! The moniker "K.I.S.S." really applies here and installing a dedicated paging system would be overkill.

After typing out all the info above, I now can get to my questions! Is there a limit to the number of stations that can be assigned to a single page group or am I dealing with a suspect 012 module?

 

[aarenot]

I assume you have done a reboot, and removed the exts. from the paging group and then added them again. The "intercom*71" would be the correct access for paging group one.
Check to make sure the door phones are not in paging group 1 and remove them if they are. It sounds like the last four ports on the 012 module are not getting paging through, you might want to change the door phones to these exts if nothing else works. That might give you two more exts with paging working. I do not recall if the 012 has any feature restrictions on the partner ACS.
As a final note, using 18D phones for paging and intercom only use is way over kill. 6 button non-display phones would be more than enough, and the cost difference would pay for replacing the 012 with 308ec's for the most part, if the 012 does have issue with paging on the last four ports.

 

[skip555]

its called a splash tone

 

[Dexman]

Hi aarenot,

I used the 18D telephones sets for a couple of reasons.
Primarily because I already had them on hand and secondly so that people could intercom between rooms by pushing only 1 button as opposed to pushing "Intercom" and then trying to match extensions & rooms (that's why "Keep It Simple Stupid" applies here.)

I used a 012 module because the church has only 2 telephone lines (3 if you count the fax line) with no plans to increase the count. So, I skipped over the 308 in favor of the 012.

The 2 doorphones have been in service for about 1 year and a review of programming shows they are not a part of page group 1. I have not tried a system reboot.

I could move the 2 door phones to extensions 28 & 29, but, for the sake of keeping extensions lined up and in order on the patch panels, I would have to run new in-house wiring. [The bulding is about 55 years old with cinderblock & concrete construction with no dropped ceilings (except in the kitchen) so there are very few places where I could store some excess slack in the cables.]

I also think that the last 4 ports on the 012 may have a limitation when it comes to page groups. I am willing to bet that if I added a 308 to slot #2 and moved the Partner Messaging module over to slot #4, I would get 8 more ports that would beep. Conversely, if I added another 012, I believe I would run into a similar situation to the one I already have where only the first 8 ports beep and the remaining 4 don't.

Without seeing any official documentation from Avaya, this is all pure speculation on my part.

Price-wise, it looks like a 012 is a little cheaper than a 308, so I may add another 012 and skip over the last 4 ports on the first 012 module. That should give me more than enough ports to cover all rooms that would benefit from the intercom/paging telephones.

 

[Dexman]

Splash tone? That's an interesting name! At least the tone itself doesn't set your teeth on edge every time it goes off!

 

[aarenot]

hey DEX,

Totally understand the idiot proofing with the one touch buttons for intercom calls. If the users will be doing intercom calls between rooms that makes sense. Although, if not using the exts for outgoing calls, you could not assign lines to the 6 buttons, and have a few buttons to program for one touch intercom calls. You could if desired still program line assignments to buttons that do not exist on a 6 button phone to accomplish ringing. A non-display would be cheaper, but I also understand the on the shelf stock consideration.
If moving the door phones will not give you enough exts. for paging, then sounds like you have a decent plan. Ever consider a 206 module, or two?

 

[Dexman]

Hey again aarenot!

The paging/intercom extensions do not have access to the outside lines. I actually came up with the intercom/paging idea when I looked at the unused ports on the telephone system and my supply of telephones and wondered what the heck I could do with this stuff that would put it all to good use.

I initially had a 6 button in the kitchen, but that was upgraded to an 18D, and later on to the 34D when I realized that 2 telephone lines and a redial didn't give me any wiggle room to add intercom buttons to cover the offices, let alone the classrooms. With the 18Ds I can fill up every available button with extensions. I do set 1 button aside for the system page.

There is 1 reason I am avoiding 206 modules. That would be that since the 206 has been discontinued for so long, any available stock would be refurbished and the 1 and only time I bought a refurbished module for the system (Partner Mail VS R4.1), the module developed problems in less than 1 year. Since then, I've gone the new route and been quite happy with the results. (True the up front cost is higher buying new stock, but I get that nice tax deduction in April! )

 

[aarenot]

I was just trying to offer a cheaper method. I work as a volunteer "bus pastor " in a bus outreach ministry to single parent families,so I understand budgets for churhces can be tight.
Sounds like you are using phones the church already owns, so I might go with the 012 solution as well. That would also leave ports for future door phones, or analog handsets, analog cordless phones, faxes, modems etc.

 

[TouchToneTommy]

Although I don't have any insight on the splash tone issue, can I recomend that you put the system in the pool mode, assign the lines to pool 881, (because it uses ONE button) and assigning it to the Intercom Only sets. Then make a Disallow list with "wild" in it as the only entry and assign it to the sets, and make sure 911 is in the emergency list? In a church, you have a lot of people coming through, and access to emergency service can be critical. Just make the ALS go Intercom only, then they can access the "line" on the pool button and dial 911.

 

[Dexman]

Hi TTT!

When I presented this intercom/paging idea to the gentleman who is in charge of the building committee (I am a member of that committee), he said that he does not want any of the extra phones to be able to answer incoming calls. He wants that function to go to the office staff (primary) or auto attendant (secondary).

I did open all of the page/intercom extensions in the voicemail system for transfer only capability. I am holding off on adding the new extensions to the greetings until the head of the committee has his say.

I have been tweaking the system since the day I installed it (little improvements here & there). The people in the office are not technically inclined, so making changes in the way you operate the telephones does not go over very well. Operating in the key-mode, which is how the 2 prior telephone systems operated, is the best fit.

If I can utilize a delayed ring on the intercom phones and restrict all outbound calls except 911, I might be able to make this project turn out nicely.

I could free up some buttons on the phones by eliminating intercom buttons for phones located in adjoining rooms. (For example, the classrooms are all clustered around 2 common rooms. I could eliminate the buttons in the classrooms that ring the corresponding common room's phone as well as phones in adjacent classrooms. Each common room's phone could lose the buttons to the classrooms clustered around).

Does my idea sound like it has merit?

Honestly, the gentleman in charge of the building has almost no technical knowledge and leaves much, if not all of the phone tasks to me. He gives me a basic set of guidelines and lets me do what needs to be done.

 

[Dexman]

Hey aarenot!

I am thinking about running the fax machine through the system. If I can use set aside an extension and do some creative programming, I could swing that! All I can say is I am thankful for the system backup & system restore functions! That has made things much easier to deal with.
(I hope your ministry is going well! )

 

[TouchToneTommy]

Hi Dexman - Putting the system in pool mode doesn't lock you into using pool access on the phones. You can go back and assign the existing office phones as Key Access Mode, and assign the lines just as they were before, so they won't see ANY difference. On the "Intercom Only" extensions, assign them as pool access, give them pool 881, set their ALS to Intercom only, and set the pool button to no ring. They will never receive an imcoming call. The pool button will only light when ALL the lines in the pool are in use. When they pick up the handset to call another extension, they are already on the Intercom. If they manually press the pool button to get an outside line, dialing ANYTHING other than 911 will get them disconnected. Because you use pool 881, you only have to give up ONE button to allow them line access.

Anyway, be aware that if you do go to pool mode, initially only Ext. 10 will be in Key mode, all other extensions will be in pool mode. Then you have to set them to Key mode and assign the lines. This means a bit of reprogramming, but once you set up one of the office phones, #399 copy will copy the mode and line assignments, so shouldn't be too bad.

 

[aarenot]

Ministry is its own reward, it always goes well.
If you want a simple way to use the 3rd line for fax and outgoing voice, just make an ext ring on that 3rd line. Connect the fax machine to that ext. Do not have any other exts ring on that 3rd line. Then add the line to your office exts, and set the ALS to grab that line first when calling out.
Then the 3rd line will be the first one used for outgoing calls. I assume your fax traffic is small, and most other fax machines that send faxes to you will redial if the fax line on your system is busy.
This is an easy way to set it up, there are more effective ways, but this is quick.

 

[Dexman]

Hi TTT!

Thank you for taking the time to type all of that up! Your suggestion sounds like the way to go.

I will admit that I am a little nervous switching to a pooled application simply because I've never worked on a pooled system before. The church phone system and the Nortel Meridian @ my "real" job all operate in a key mode.

I am going to fetch the Programming Guide tomorrow and start planning all the changes that will need to be made. The most critical point for me is getting extensions 11-15 back into a key system mode. I do keep programming backed up so if I make a mess of things, I'll do a simple system restore.

Thank you again TTT. I've seen your "work" on this and other help sites and you, along with a handful of other vendors, really do give out superb advice!

 

[aarenot]

I would go woth what TTT said, it makes sense, and you seem confortable with the change over. Since you know how to use restore, it is not so intimidating.
TTT really does know his stuff.

 

[Dexman]

Hey aarenot!

You pretty much read my mind in the way I hope to go with the fax machine. But before I make any changes, I still have to get it OK'd.

It’s true that the call volume and fax volume isn’t all that heavy so we can get away with only 2 telephone lines and 1 fax line.

One small downside to running the fax machine through the ACS system is that if the ACS or the port that the machine is connected to goes down, faxes will stop. I think I will leave jack that the fax machine is connected to wired as is, mount a new jack and wire that to the ACS. That way if the system goes down, all that has to be done is have someone move the fax machine's line cord from the ACS jack to the Bell jack.

I just love redundancy!

 

[Dexman]

I may need a little help with the procedure to get extensions 11 to 15 looking like a "key system" again after I switch to a pooled setup.

I am pretty comfortable with the ACS, but tend to be a little "shy" about venturing off of a familiar path.

 

[TouchToneTommy]

Here's what you're going to need to do:

Back it up! If you have remote access, download the programming, just in case.

Put the system in pool mode: #198-tnecul-2

When it restarts, Ext. 10 is in Key mode, all the others are in pool mode, the lines are assigned to pool 880, and all extensions except 10 have 880 assigned to the "line1" and "line2" buttons, with no ring.

I don't know if 16 and 17 will still be assigned as door phones, if not do it now.

Do a #399-10-(11-12-13-14-15) to get the Office phones back to Key mode, with the lines assigned, and the same ringing assignments as Ext. 10. Change ringing assignments as required.

Remove Pool 880 at Ext. 18, (#314-18-880-2) and reassign pool 881 instead (#314-18-881-1).

Pop into Centralized Telephone Programming and set the Auto Line Select for Ext. 18 to Intercom, that is dial **, Left Intercom, **

Go back to System Programming and make Disallow List 1, Entry 01, "wild" (#404-1-02-Hold-Enter), and assign it to Ext. 18 (#405-18-1-1). Check for 911 in the Emergency List (#406-01)

Copy 18 to the other Intercom Only extensions (#399-18-(19-20-21.....29))

Pull the lines out of 880 and assign to 881 (#207-XX-3 for each line. I didn't see where how many line you are using)

That should pretty much do it!

 

[Dexman]

Only 2 telephone lines.

TTT I don't know how I could even begin to thank you for all that! You are a true asset to these boards!

Paul C. (Dexman)

 

[Dexman]

I made the programming changes to the telephone system today.

All tests passed with flying colors!

Now the acid test will be how the system acts when the regular users put it through it's paces.

As a basic precaution, I won't back up the new configuration until I'm sure eveyone is happy (about a week).

Thank You Again TTT!