Nortel vs Cisco - VoIP... 2

[dehlert]

Ok, I am treading on water on this one but since there are so many experts here, I thought I would ask the question.

We currently have approximately 12 switches (Option 11's, 61's, and 81's) that are running either Succession 3.0 (due to MerMail) or Succession 4.5 w/ Call Pilot.

On these switches, we have approximately 12,000 analog and digital ports.

Our Management has been courted by Cisco for a couple of years now and has made a decision to move towards a Cisco VoIP solution. According to one Manager, he believes that Nortel will only be around for about three more years and feels that Cisco has the better VoIP solution.

My colleague and I disagree and we are looking at additional information to try and pursuade our Management to reevaluate Nortel's solution. We attempted to do a VoIP demo between Nortel and Cisco and the support we received from both our Support Vendor and the Nortel reps at the time was very poor.

Since that time, our Support Vendor and Nortel Sales Rep have changed for the better..!!

Could I get some information from anyone that I could present to my Management showing Nortel is the better solution..?? I am also looking for Companies who had Nortel, tried Cisco VoIP, and then went back to Nortel or Companies who tried to implement Cisco and it failed.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

David

 

[Johnthephoneguy]

We are a Nortel shop for ALL our voice products, 300 branches all have norstars, back offices have 81's and 1 11. ALl our branches use Cisco routers for data. On an average, we replace 2 Cisco router's per month for one reason or another. We have yet in the 3 years I have been here replaced any major cards on any of the Pbx's. I don't think Cisco has the reliability that Nortel does. Not even close. This is what persuaded our management to stick with Nortel.

JohnThePhoneGuy

"If I can't fix it, it's not broke!

 

[acewarlock]

My last job the Option 11C was up 4 years with no INI or SYS, the Cisco Data network to 60 sites and HQ had at least 2 or 3 outages a day. Which network would you want your Voice on?




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[phones1]

Just to throw my 10pence in.

Cisco: Ask them about their redundancy as there is a known issue with the publisher as they cannot cluster it so when it fails everything has to reregister & you lose a lot of set based features, & a fair amount of down time

Load balancing NOT as easy as Nortel (a click of a button).

if you have any other vendor equipment in your network it will not work/ integrate with cisco fully, which their answer seems to be we have box that does that so buy it & problem solved (not very good for open standards).

Also there seem to be too many good cisco DATA engineers trying their hand at voice, which is Ok but its usually at the cost of good working practice.

Remember if it doesn't work hit it harder

Scott UK

 

[staabj]

CISCO must be an acronym for:

Can
I
Spell
Cost
Overruns?

 

[klamb]

dehlert : ask Nortel about their upgrade programs?
The bulk of the IP system install cost is down to licensing. Last year we replaced an 81c with CS1000E and Nortel upgraded (swapped) the TDM licenses for IP licenses - for a nominal fee.

If your Nortel Acct Mgr is made aware he will lose the business to Cisco he will do anything to keep the business (or should do). If he doesn't go over his head.....

Another major thought is down to the handset configuration & features - your existing handset config can easily be migrated over to the new VoIP platform - would it be this easy going from Nortel to Cisco ???

I have no experience of the Cisco VoIP solutions and handset features but I cannot believe that they will be able to support the full extent of the Nortel features.

As for the data side of things - Nortel are way ahead (in my humble opinion) we replaced our LAN infrastructure two years ago and at the time thought that Cisco would win it, but in looking into the technologies Nortel won hands down thanks to the SMLT for resiliency & redundancy, tri-speed port densities on edge switches - at the time Cisco had nothing to compare. Now at least they are catching up, but still lag behind on the technology side. So in my view Cisco are playing catchup with Nortels' proven track record on their Data & Voice portfolio.

As for the Microsoft/Nortel appliance - this was down to Microsoft partnering with Nortel to integrate Nortel's conferencing solution MCS5100 which was already established - again Nortel leading the way. As such the intergration between Microsoft OCS & Nortel MCS5100 should be as tight as it gets.

have fun.....

 

[dehlert]

I really appreciate everyone's comments, thoughts, and information.

My goal now is to try and to introduce this information to my management as they want to move forward.

Thanks again.

David

 

[tommytommy011]

I heard Merril Lynch chose to Cisco and kick them out in less than one year. Has anybody heard that?

Tommy

 

[RossV]

Heard the same thin about Merril Lynch. Also know they have a lot of trouble with echo when networking systems togethor to begin with. They have a tach team of experts that can be deployed but there are conditions that have to be met for them to go out. Personally I don't want to take the beating required to meet them. I also know for fact they have trouble with forwarding. If you forward your phone to another set on the same system the call doesn't recall to your voice mail box it is off to the destinations mailbox. I have also heard that they have a lot of trouble with multiple ringing appearances and boss secretary functionality. I don't know the last one for fact but my brother in law is a Cisco guy and forever complains about that one.

 

[BrokenRecord2]

Look the bottom line is both companies do a good job in the VoIP space. If your managment thinks Cisco does VoIP better then they are miss informaed and they made up there mind before it even started. Every reason you just gave came from the Cisco playbook. Believe me I have heard them all before. One thing you won't find is companies going public with there dislike of the Cisco product because its the managers making the decissions over the people who work with it everyday. They are not going to go out and say I was wrong, Cisco was a bad choice.

I can give you this, a certain Hollywood Agnecy in Hollywood who represents John Cambers (Cisco CIO) tried Cisco and went back to Nortel. This was after John made a few trips himself to strong arm the buisness. There is also a certain company with ears on there head who said there were going 100% Cisco and is back in talking with Nortel once again.

If I were you I would say lets do one off with Nortel VoIP and one with Cisco VoIP. Both companies will give you a trial system if you ask in the right way. Then what you need to do is get Micosift in there and have them talk to the server guys and get them to buy off on Nortel.

If none of that works then embrace it, get the Cisco training and go get a job anywhere in the US because you can do Cisco and Nortel.

 

[Phnman]

Ask CISCO how they do analog or don't. If your FAX and other
analog applications go thru your PBX you'll want ask CISCO
how they accomplish that.(how much it will cost EXTRA)

 

[hawks]

Merril Lynch did back off Cisco in 03 or 04 I think but the last I saw was that in 05 they were going to go with Cisco. I have not seen anything since. We are a Nortel shop and as of right now have no intensions of going anywhere else. Like brokenrecord stated above both companies are good and seem to be leaders in the Voip market. One thing I would also look at is the warrenty on the product that each offer.