Newest "Cheat" method in schools. 2

[SantaMufasa]

Man, things have changed since Beaver Cleaver and I were in school...I just heard that the newest BIG thing in schools (from middle school through college) is to CHEAT on tests via text messaging.

Local schools are implementing a $250 unit that jams cell signals for the entire school.

What are your thoughts on either/both sides of this issue?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I can provide you with low-cost, remote Database Administration services: see our website and contact me via www.dasages.com]

 

[sbudzynski]

In my school if you were seen with a cell phone during class times (7:30am to 2:15pm I believe). Then you would be suspended from school for no less then three days. Your cell phone had to remain turned off in your locker until school was over, if you were seen with it then you would be suspended.

For instance, my friend was seen with his cell phone clipped to the inside of his pocket (his cell phone clip was sticking out). His cell phone was not on and it was securely in his pocket. He was given three days suspension because our school cell phone policy states your phone must remain in your locker. Before 7:30am and after 2:15pm then you could have you cell phone out and you could use it.

These rules are for my high school and middle school not college. In college I feel that students should be able to carry their cell phones around but during class they must be on silent. I do not think they should be prohibited from receiving and replying to a text message they receive during lecture (depending on class size and the professor). However, I do not think a student should talk on their cell phone or have a "text" conversation during class.

Please let me know if my quote is still confusing. Thanks!


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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[sbudzynski]

I took calculus last semester and calculators were absolutely forbidden.

I was able to squeeze out an A though!


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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> CC are you saying the teacher be able to read the message during exam times or anytime a text is received in class?
Why not? Did you not say that, "I believe it would be wiser to have the teachers and teaching assistants keep a closer eye on students"? What better way for the teacher to keep an eye on the students then to read any text messages taking place during that teacher's class? How better than to see if cheating is taking place than allow the teacher to read the text?

==> I don't think that it would be that much a disruption if students were allowed to send and receive text messages during lecture.
Any distruption, even if it's not that much, is too much and detracts from the education process.

==> Of course the phone must be on silent and I do not condone having text conversations during class time.
In combination with previous quote, are you suggesting that lecture time is not class time?

==> If you were in highschool or any small classroom surrounding I think it would be very inappropriate to text during class and disrespectful to the teacher.
Class size has no bearing on disrespectful behavior, whether to the teacher or to student right next to you. The student right next you shouldn't have to deal with the distraction.

To me, it doesn't matter whether we're talking grade school, high school, undergraduate lecture, or graduate research classes, text messaging in class detracts from the education process. It is disrespectful to the teacher and fellow students regardless of class size, class age, or subject matter.

Unless the cell phone is an integral part of the education process or curiculuum, it serves no positive function in the classroom.

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[sbudzynski]

I am sure that many would agree with you, your points are excellent. But, do you think we should pay to have this "jamming device" or do you think a cell phone ban in class rooms can be equally effective?

CC are you saying the teacher be able to read the message during exam times or anytime a text is received in class?
I do not think teachers should be able to read students text messages during lecture time because cheating would not be an issue. During exam time I think teachers should be allowed to read a text because the notion of cheating now applies.

Of course the phone must be on silent and I do not condone having text conversations during class time.
Lecture time is class time, I do not condone "text conversations" during class or lecture time. I think it would be distracting and disrespectful to be "chatting" back and forth via text. I do not think a reply to a text message is the same as having a conversation via text and I don't think replying to a text would be distracting.

Either way I do not think we need to implement any jamming devices, I honestly believe teachers should be able to keep this issue under control. But thats just my opinion, I honestly do not know much about this jamming technology. Does it work room by room, building by building, or over a large area? Can it turn on and off? I guess before I can dig deeper into this discussion I will have to learn more about the technology.


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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> I do not think teachers should be able to read students text messages during lecture time because cheating would not be an issue. During exam time I think teachers should be allowed to read a text because the notion of cheating now applies.
That's an incredibly slippery slope. Ok class, it's pop test time - now hold up your phones. And of course, you have the privacy advocates on the other side.

In your original post in this thread, you said, "I feel that students should be able to send and receive text messages during normal class periods ...". In your most recent post, you said, "I do not condone 'text conversations' during class or lecture time." Have you changed your mind (perfecly ok), or am I missing something?

==> I do not think a reply to a text message is the same as having a conversation via text and I don't think replying to a text would be distracting.
How many replies do you get before it becomes a conversation? How many replies before it becomes a distraction to someone else in the room?

As far as the jamming equipment - if we ban text phones from the classroom, then it's not an issue. But even in your most recent post, you said that replying to a text message would be ok.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[sbudzynski]

I don't think that it would be that much a disruption if students were allowed to send and receive text messages during lecture. Of course the phone must be on silent and I do not condone having text conversations during class time.

That is my first post on the subject.

How many replies before it becomes a distraction to someone else in the room?

When I say reply I meant something along the lines of "I'm in class I'll call you after."

As far as the jamming equipment - if we ban text phones from the classroom, then it's not an issue. But even in your most recent post, you said that replying to a text message would be ok.

All my posts I have said I don't think we should ban cell phones from college classes and that I think a reply would be okay but not a conversation. But on the banning issue, if it is that much of a distraction then I would go for banning way before jamming cell phones.


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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[sbudzynski]

Ok class, it's pop test time - now hold up your phones.

I dont understand what you mean? I was just saying if a text were recieved during exam time then the teacher could check. It is kind of like if a paper were passed around the teacher could read it. I don't expect the teacher to say "Pop Quiz time! Empty your pockets!"


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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[gbaughma]

OK, now I'm feeling old.

First off (just turned 40)... there *were* no cell phones when I was in school. In fact, I wasn't allowed to use the house phone without permission. That was for the adults. Period.

I see no problem with banning cell phones in classrooms; cell phones can be locked in the lockers and left off. If it's *that* much of an emergency, you should be excused from class anyway. If it's your parents saying they'll be gone and to microwave something for dinner, they can either a) leave a voicemail, b) call the office and leave a message (the old fashioned way), or c) leave a note on the fridge.

I'm expected to turn off my cell phone when in a hospital (although I have other views on that as well, like the FCC regulations stating that electronic equipment must be able to *receive* stray RF from other devices and still function properly.... personally, I think the whole thing is a bunch of crap.... ) I'm also expected to turn off or set silent my cell phone when I'm in trainings, at meetings, etc.

And speaking of hospitals, I once had a security guard come up to me at a hospital (I'm an amateur radio operator), and tell me that he was going to have to confiscate my HT (Handy-Talkie) radio. I asked him "Why?" He said "Because it can interfere with hospital equipment" I said "Oh, more than the 5 watt motorola that you've got on your belt? Besides, I'm *LICENSED* to carry this radio, and I'm putting out 1/20th of the power that you are (I was at 250mw), and on top of THAT, I'm MONITORING, not TRANSMITTING, because I'm part of an EMERGENCY SERVICES NETWORK." It shut him up pretty quick.

But, I went on a tangent. My daughter (16 years old) feels that she *DESERVES* a cell phone, because her friends have cell phones, etc. I told her that first she DESERVED to work for one, the way I have to work for mine. End of story.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> When I say reply I meant something along the lines of "I'm in class I'll call you after."
What makes that any less of a distraction, or any less disrespectful than any other text messaging?

==> I don't expect the teacher to say "Pop Quiz time! Empty your pockets!"
But you do hear teacher say "Close your books", and the text area of the phone is just as open, and more fluid.

Now you've been given distraction and cheating and two very good reasons why not to have cell phones in class.

Let's go back to some earlier questions that you've yet to address:
How does text messaging in class improve the education process?
and from From SantaMufasa
What pressing need would arise that would justify the potential disruption to the class?

Please justify allowing cell phones in a classroom.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[sbudzynski]

What makes that any less of a distraction, or any less disrespectful than any other text messaging?
Well thats clearly less distracting then having a conversation via text message on your phone because the student would constantly be going from phone to notes to phone to notes. I imagine this along the lines of another student trying to talk to you during class, very distracting but can easily be stopped with one polite reply.

But you do hear teacher say "Close your books", and the text area of the phone is just as open, and more fluid. Our teachers says, put your books under your desks and make sure any electronic equipment is off and put away (cell phone, ipod, laptop). I do not think close your books is similar to "hold up your phone".

How does text messaging in class improve the education process?
Are you saying anything that does not improve the education process should not be allowed in class?

What pressing need would arise that would justify the potential disruption to the class?
Emergencies of any sort.



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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[sbudzynski]

I just want to confirm that it is understood I am speaking merely for the college (large lecture hall) environment.


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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Well thats clearly less distracting then having a conversation
So you admit that even replying IS a distraction.

==> Are you saying anything that does not improve the education process should not be allowed in class?
No, I'm saying that anything that causes distractions, or in other ways detracts from the education process should not be allowed in class.

==> Emergencies of any sort.
The teacher can take care of that. And if the teacher cannot for some reason, there is a teacher next door.

Why not turn off the cell phone off and put it away when you enter the classroom? If there is a bona-fide emergency, then you can take it out and turn it back on.

Do you have any justification for the valid use of text messaging in a classroom. In the meantime, how long is your longest class? How long would you be expected to go without texting if cell phones were banned in the classroom?

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[sbudzynski]

So you admit that even replying IS a distraction.

About as distracting as a sneeze.

Emergencies of any sort.

Not just internal emergencies but emergencies from the outside world as well (sickness, car accident, help needed, etc...).

My longest class if 4 hours, the issue here is not how long I can or cannot survive without my phone. The issue is whether or not it is necessary to BAN cell phones from class. There is no problem with the way things are now therefore why spend money on something that really is not that big of an issue. If cheating is the issue then (as I said before) the teacher needs to do a better job monitoring their student.

If a teacher has a problem with seeing a cellphone in class then write in the syllabus NO CELLPHONES and then enforce the rule. This has worked in the past for every class I've been in and is presently working in the classes I am in. If the teacher finds that his or her rule is not being followed then I believe it is merely a problem with enforcing the rule.

But teachers w/large lecture halls do not try to ban cellphones but do require cellphones to be silenced.

Why?

It would be ridiculous to outlaw cellphones from a lecture hall of that size during lecture time. One single teacher cannot walk up and down the halls to make sure no student is texting on their phone, watching movies on their ipod or laptop, or talking on aim w/their laptop. However, during exams, they have TA's who are supposed to walk up and down the aisles to prevent cheating (of all types, texting included).



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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[flapeyre]

FWIW, if I were the teacher:

All electronic devices are to be surrendered to the teacher at his/her desk at the start of the exam.

You don't get it back until you turn in the test. Period. No exceptions, other than fire drill or other emergency, in which case the test will be postponed in any event.

You don't need your cellphone for any purpose whatsoever during any test. If you need a calculator (and they are permitted), get one at Radio Shack Wal-Mart or someplace. They are dirt cheap.

Your "important" conversation can wait (I presume your cell phone, like 99 44/100% of the ones out there today, has voice mail, and that undelivered text messages are queued). Anybody (read: your parents) who needs you in an emergency can always call the school office, who will get in touch with you via the teacher. Your parents (especially), and your friends, ought to understand that you will be inaccessible via cell phone during a test.

I am not accusing you or anybody else of cheating via cellphone. However, it does happen. For example, IT professionals all have had their jobs made much harder (Sarbanes-Oxley) because of the actions of greedy executives who went off the reservation (Enron, WorldCom, et. al.). And the nutcase who put cyanide in a bottle of Tylenol has made it harder for older folks to open a bottle or jar of anything useful anymore.



Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[sbudzynski]

If you had a lecture hall of 400+ students would you ask them for all their electronic devices before an exam? Don't forget you only have so much allotted time to administer the exam and you know the names of maybe 10 students. It would be very difficult and lengthy to collect everyone’s electronic device and return them to their rightful owner before they have to get to their next class.

I would say, don't bring you cell phones or any electronic devices to the exam. If you are seen with any electronic device during the exam you will be charged with cheating, your will get a 0 on your exam and you would be in violation of the honor code (at my school an expellable offense).



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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[flapeyre]

If you had a lecture hall of 400+ students would you ask them for all their electronic devices before an exam? Don't forget you only have so much allotted time to administer the exam and you know the names of maybe 10 students. It would be very difficult and lengthy to collect everyone’s electronic device and return them to their rightful owner before they have to get to their next class.

In every high school and college class I ever took, once you finish the exam, you can leave. Have things changed in the last 38 years?

Give everyone who checks a device a numbered ticket. You can get these two-part rolls of tickets anywhere. Devices are lined up on a table in ticket number order; you only get it back after you trun ion the exam (and the ticket). Even better, staple the student's ticket copy to the first page of the exam - can't lose it that way. Tape the other half to the device.


Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[Thadeus]

I feel that this entire discussion is rather silly.

Next you'll all want to ban my right to have a gun because I may shoot it illegally.

Or more to the point, banning it because someone else once used one to kill someone. Further, that I wouldn't be able to kill someone if I didn't have a gun myself.

When you create rules that affect large bodies of people because in the past, a fractional percentage of them have acted in bad faith, then you get the straw man you deserve.

bottom line - ban all electronic devices and your cheater will utilize an alternative method. You are not stopping the cheaters, but punishing the decent people.

 

[sbudzynski]

Flapeyre - you can leave as soon as you finish the exam. But in your case you can leave as soon as you finish the exam and you wait through the line to get your electronic device. Even with the ticket stub idea (not a bad idea!) the amount of students alone trying to find their phone and ticket stub would be create total chaos. Someone (professor, TA) would have to be in charge of the tickets and devices when you could just use that person to patrol for cheaters.

Thadeus - That is almost exactly my point. A ban of all electronic devices is uncalled for. It would barely cut into the percentage of students that cheat. Also it would be unfair to those students who use their laptop to take class notes. I say have teachers, TA's keep closer eyes on their students and you will cut back on cell phone cheating (and cheating with cheat sheets, writing on your hands, looking on other peoples papers, etc..)

I don't think it is the discussion that is silly, just the idea of banning or even jamming cell signals when a much easier, more cost effective, and fair solution can be found.

I think I've ground my discussion to the bone, so I will try to give it a rest (finally you all say haha!).


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Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[LadySlinger]

Students that are doing this will get the future that they deserve. If you go around taking pictures of exams so that you really don't have to study, then really how far is that going to get you in life?
Sure everytime your future boss asks "Send me reports for the past week and place them in this order...I want to see how well you're team is doing" then is this person going to flash a picture of the bosses requirements and depend on his friend or coworker to answer it for him?
Even if this student gets promoted and he's using a coworker that coworker will get ticked off eventually for having to do all the work and not getting a reward. So in the end he screws his friend.

 

[gbaughma]

Students that are doing this will get the future that they deserve

Unfortunately, students who are doing this will get a diploma. And then they will get jobs that I'm more qualified for, but don't get because *I* don't have a diploma (college).

I just saw it happen recently. A guy who I worked with got a job at a hospital that I had applied for. I held his hand and helped him through tech problems and server issues at our job together. I didn't even get a call for an interview, just a "dear john" letter, and he got the job. Because he had the diploma.

Sorry.... I need a spoonful of sugar to get the bitterness out of me now...

Granted, the "cheaters" will fall on their faces, because they don't *know* the stuff they had to cheat on. But, unfortunately, the truth of the matter is that they will get the *opportunity* to fall on their faces. I don't even get that chance.

(Moral of the story: KIDS, GO TO COLLEGE, and DON'T CHEAT)



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg