Librarian wants to ban 5-time reading champ from contest 11

[SantaMufasa]

Librarian wants to ban 5-time reading champ from contest. What are your reactions to this?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
“People may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel.

 

[kwbMitel]

@mscallisto, My first response was the one I intended to be heard but no one paid any attention to it.

Were I in the Librarians position I would have proposed the the award be named after the child and had him be the presenter of same. This acknowledges his accomplishments, gives him pride of lasting fame, allows him to participate at a higher level and allows others to have a better chance to succeed.

My objections have been towards all those saying that giving the kid the award is the only solution and that by not doing so it somehow lessens the accomplishments of others. If I understand correctly, and I believe I do, these types of programs are not competitions per-se. They are developed to encourage kids to read that would not do so otherwise. The purpose of the program is defeated when the target audience believes they have little or no chance to succeed. The fact that previous years programs had led to cheating should have been a serious red flag to the organisers and the program should have been revamped or folded altogether. By not doing so, the program fed the attitudes that are prevalent here that winning in this kind of program is somehow important. Getting a kid to read a book where they would not have done so otherwise should be the single measure of success in a program such as this. By losing sight of this, everyone involved failed. The only person I don't blame is the kid. I wish him luck and hope he comes across someone who can teach him the value of doing your best for that sake alone rather than the glory, awards or any of the other misguided goals.

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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[kwbMitel]

@Everyone

For the record, I do have an inside track on some of these things. My wife happens to have her Masters in Library and information services and she is the Manager of childrens services for the Main Branch in the city where I live. She has been a Professional Librarian for over 20 years and has taught young adult fiction discussion courses at the graduate level of University. She is currently responsible for developing, marketing, and evaluating programs such as these and I consider her to be one of the smartest people I know. You can't live this close to this stuff without some of it rubbing off.

If you like, I can ask her opinion directly if you are still having issues with mine.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[carp]

K -

My issue is not with you or your desire for more people to come out ahead. My problem is with how the librarian is handling this situation. I think the core of the problem lies in the structure of the "contest". It is set up so that there is a single "winner". Having done so, she is then saying "well, Tyler 'hogs' this" - thus throwing negative labels at the kid who excels. Rather than admitting there is a basic problem with how she has set up the program, she then goes on to penalize him by trying to exclude him because he is the best at what he does. If you study early Soviet history, you will see where this kind of thinking leads when taken to the extreme.

If you want to have more people "win", don't set it up so you have only one "winner" - set achievement levels so that people who read a given number of books are recognized. If reading 20 books puts you at the silver level and 30 gets the gold level, then more than one person can achieve recognition and those at the lower levels can improve if they so desire. But if you set it up as a competition with the person reading the most books "winning", you cannot claim to be concerned about fairness if you exclude the people who would naturally win.

Eventually, Tyler will leave the school and leave behind a legacy of winning every year. Some students will accept the challenge to equal that record and/or read even more books than he did. Others will not. I think that is the difference between those that get ahead and the rest of the pack.

 

[SkipVought]

So how can we encourage achievement and at the same time recognize over achievement?

Madam librarian (I wonder if her name was Marion, the librarian) created the single winner conundrum. Could she not also create a solution to encourage these behaviors, like to create another award that would recognize multiple year winners separately and with the appropriate emphasis?

How she reacted and her characterization of Tyler's accomplishments, was HOGwash!

Skip,
[sub]
Just traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE![/sub]

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> If you don't see how the arguments regarding entitlement and winners and losers is labeling the other participants and finding them wanting then no arguments on my side will convince you otherwise.
No, it's not labeling the other participants in any way shape, fashion, or form. Not in any way. It's not labeling any one. It's labeling the competition as flawed. It's says nothing about the competitors; it says everything about the competition. If you set up a competition to award a winner, and then deny th winner their rewards, then you have made a mockery of the competition and done a disservice to the winner. You're sending the message that it does NOT pay to do your best. That's what everyone is saying. You seem to think they're saying something else.

Somehow, if the person who is best at something does not get his due then everyone else is a slackard.

That's complete BS and a logical non-sequitor.
There is not a single post which denigrates the efforts of ANY of the competitors, strong or weak. Not one post labels anyone who doesn't win a slacker, nor does any post imply that one who competes and doesn't win is a slacker. For you to claim that people in this forum have done so is uncalled for and has no place in this forum. I ask that you either retract that statement, or provide solid supporting evidence that may be discussed in the event that you have misunderstood what someone has said, or as mintjulep has said, "Then you're not hearing correctly."

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[ChrisHunt]

Since when was reading a competitive activity?

Comparisons with sports teams and stars are inappropriate as the aims of sporting competitions are different. The idea of a race is to find the fastest runner, it would clearly be ridiculous to ban Usain Bolt from Athletics for winning too often.

But the purpose of the reading programme is to encourage children to read. Imagine you're a not-especially-enthusiastic reader in Tyler's peer group. You're not going to be inspired to take part, because you know Tyler's going to win regardless. Why not spend the summer playing computer games instead?

So the librarian lady's heart is in the right place - but I think she's fixing the wrong problem. By making the programme into a competition to find the most voracious reader in the class (which is something everyone has already known for years), it dis-incentivises the very children that they're trying to reach: kids who haven't got the reading bug yet.

So rather than banning this child from the competition, I think they need to restructure it entirely. Tackle it the we would tackle an IT problem: determine the specific things they're trying to do, and then build a programme that will achieve those aims. If it includes prizes for those individuals who are "best" at some element of the reading process, that's not necessarily wrong - because one of the project aims might be to give nerdy kids who lack sporting ability something they can win. But I think there should be a strong element of challenging-but-achievable goals that will encourage everyone to take part. Maybe you get a prize for every x books you read. I don't know.

I'm not going to suggest how the programme should be structured, because it's outside my area of expertise. No doubt there are plenty of existing examples of best practice out there that they could copy.

But part of me still weeps to see reading turned into any kind of competition, however benign. Surely there are enough competitive pressures we put on our children (and ourselves, for that matter) without having to add reading to the list? Couldn't reading be left as a simple pleasure to be enjoyed in the way you see fit? If you want to tear through piles of books at breakneck speed, great. If you'd rather read slowly, savouring every word, that's great too. The point is to open the door to the wonderful world that can be found inside the pages of books, so they'll want to read even when there are no prizes to be had. Because ultimately reading is its own reward.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[kwbMitel]

@CajunCenturion - feel free to censure. As I said earlier, if you can't see the labels, nothing I can say will change your mind.

Please read ChrisHunts recent post. There are no labels and he gets it.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[carp]

I think Chris has struck upon the dilemma - how do you provide an incentive for people to read more without turning it into some kind of contest? Do you pay kids for every book read? Even then, there will probably be a de facto contest going on to see who can get the most money. Adults may think they're on to something with ideas like scoreless soccer (if there's no score, there can be no winners or losers, right?). But every player on the field and parent on the sidelines knows what the score is - don't kid yourself.

Aside from some kind of reward, I cannot think of a way to incent kids to read if they are not already inclined to do so on their own. I think kids will either discover the joy of reading or they won't, and those who don't will be that much poorer for it. But I'm pretty sure that offering a reward to the most prolific reader and then excluding the most prolific reader from the contest is sending some pretty bad messages.

 

[kwbMitel]

This article I ran across today speaks more vividly to the arguments regarding competition, and the everybody wins attitude. Personally, I am astonished at how far it has come. For the record, I think this is shameful.

http://www.cbc.ca/thisisthat/mobile...thletic-association-removes-ball-from-soccer/

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What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[flyboytim]

I guess the librarian's name could have been Diana Moon Glampers. see here

 

[mintjulep]

OMFG! That's pathetic.

When I was young we used our imaginations too. Mostly we imagined being winners. "Bottom of the 9th, 2 outs, 2 strikes --- he smashes a homer into the upper deck!"

Or if we were playing short handed football (the real American type of football, not sissy soccer) we "imagined" offensive line men by imposing a "no rushing the QB before a count of 3 Mississippi" rule. So we used our imaginations while still actually trying to win the game.

And when we played war (yes, we played war back then, or cops and robbers, or cowboys and hostile indigenous people..) we imagined bullets and had an honor system about "yep, you killed me".

We imagined ways to make or bikes and skateboards go faster, or jump farther. Then we modified our bikes, or build bigger, longer, taller ramps to jump things. Amazing, we actually made physically real things based on our imaginations. Then we went faster, or jumped farther. We established records. We won.

Sometimes we smashed our fingers with hammers. Sometimes we scraped our knees. Sometimes we broke our arms or our legs. And when we did so we learned something. We learned that a really long ramp needs support in the middle. We learned that crashing on grass hurts less than crashing on gravel. We learned that you should wear jeans when trying for the jumping record. We learned that go-carts really need engines and brakes.

Imagine --> Create --> Try ---> Fail ---> Learn --> Achieve

Doing only the first is the same as doing nothing.

 

[guitarzan]

Now THAT made me laugh out loud!!!! What perfect timing for this thread too! But, let's everybody calm down...




...its a hoax. A DAMN good one it would seem, judging by how many media outlets in North America believed it!!!!

http://www.sportsgrid.com/soccer/en...etworks-story-on-youth-soccer-no-ball-league/

 

[kwbMitel]

Oh thankyou Guitarzan, hoax I can understand, I was embarrassed for my country.

It was CBC and I verified thru a second source. (I fell for the boy in the balloon story too, gullible I guess)

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[cmeagan656]

This Is That is a satirical radio show that runs on CBC radio. Everything on that site is satire.

Hope this helps.

Please help us help you. Read Tek-Tips posting polices before posting.
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[Westi]

Thanks guys and gals
I am holding my belly as I have not had a laugh since last week. I read the first line about removing the ball from competition to my wife and she meant that everybody has gone nuts until I told her that it was a hoax and a lot of networks fell for it. Now her belly hurts too from laughing.

As for the reading competitions, my kids don't like to read and their readathon in school that they have once a year is pretty much the only time I can get them to pick up a book. Needless to say they never win but they read. This is the best proof for me that you do not need to win to enjoy something.


@ mintjulep
your post reminds me of a 2 minute youtube video that my mother in law sent me last week (last time my belly hurt from laughing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWRdHXbTmrs&sns=em

Joe W.

FHandw, ACSS (SME), ACIS (SME)

http://convergednetworks.ca

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.”

 

[Thargy]

er, um, impugn anyone?

Regards

T

 

[JCreamerII]

One other consideration, usually these contests are the start of a bigger contest. Regional to State to National. If this was part of a national contest then shame on the adults that let it happen. If it was just a school contest then naming the contest after the prior winner is cool. But I still have an issue with denying any child an opportunity to compete.

Jim C.

 

[Welshbird]

I'm joining this discussion later (been far too busy with that 4 letter word thing (you know the one..... w&rk)...

My first thought for this is that I don't know how you can measure a reading champ? Reading isn't a competitive activity.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[2ffat]

Reading isn't a competitive activity.

I see a lot of librarians do this. Until kids realize that reading is fun, the more you read the easier it is, and that reading (and learning) is it's own reward, some kids won't read unless there is a tangible reward. (Especially in the summer.)


James P. Cottingham
I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229!

 

[guitarzan]

I love librarians that take steps to encourage reading, including rewards, and a contest ending with a reading "winner" may not be the worst idea ever, but it is also flawed in my opinion. I'm with Welshbird and ChrisHunt. Reading is not a sport. It is not a competition.

To improve your standing in a sport, you can isolate certain things that can give you an edge. Basketball players can shoot countless free throws to build up muscle memory. Swimmers can learn to increase the efficiency of their strokes. How are you going to improve yourself for next year's reading contest? Read fast and skim chapters? Only choose the shortest books available?

Yes, this librarian came up with a lame way to tweak the contest, but when the criteria for winning is solely based on volume of books read, the contest is flawed.