LEGRAND patch panels 1

[Pabxer]

Hi !

A year ago we got some 15 patch panels installed in a new building and we are having problems with it since the first day. We are losing contact on all jacks at random, or when slightly touching the connector and testing showed that the loss of contact is due to the loss of signal on only FIRST PIN ?!!

Panels are model : 33264 Panel FTP Cat.5e 24xRJ 1U, by LEGRAND manufacturer.

The company that did all the installation work claims that patch panels are ok, and that patch cords ( that we made by ourselves aren't good) but we can't believe that LEGRAND patch panel can work ONLY with their original patch cord cables ?! Is that possible ?

Had anyone of you worked or had some experiences with these panels ?

 

[BitFuzzy]

It sounds like the contractor may have a valid point.

No, it's not likely that the patch panel(s) require a specific patch cable.

My suggestion is to purchase a couple of over the counter patch cables and see if they solve the problem. "IF they do" then it's definatly your cables.

"if they demostrate the same problem" then its definatly your patch panel(s)

 

[skip555]

that patch cords ( that we made by ourselves aren't good)

we had a discussion here a few weeks ago about this and somone used the term "scrap Crap " to describe site made cords.(ussally made with scrap cat5 cable from the data drops)

there are lots of reasons to use premade , your seeing one

replace all your "scrap crap " and I bet the problem goes away

 

[Pabxer]

Thank you for your answers.

The thing that's also confusing is that the constructor brought few original LEGRAND cables and with these cables situation was better, but still there was losing of contact at random ( but less, I must admit), or when touching a connector on patch panel - what we can't avoid when doing some changes in the rack.

It is also strange that ALL comes from losing contact on pin 1. It's hard to believe that all cables that we made ( even the ones made with LEGRAND crimping tool) are all "not good" on pin 1.

Now the constructor wants us to buy all original cables (about 300 pieces) which isn't a small cost after all and we are not sure it would solve completely the problem ( judging by these few original ones that we checked ...)

Also, in original project it was planned that we get original cables, but afterwards they changed it so that the constructor gives us adequate cable and connectors and that we make it ourselves. It was obviously wrong, but we weren't involved in that, we are now just users having problems with it ...

Anyway, we are having doubts that these patch panels aren't good since we heard that this model appeared only one year in catalog and it was out of catalog the following year (I think 2002.)

 

[BitFuzzy]

buy a couple of patch cables (spend the darn 2.00) and see if it clears the problem up.

If it does shop around for a decient price (i'm sure the contractors price isn't as cheap as I could get 300pc for lol)

Until you test it, you won't know for sure

 

[mforrence]

How do you know that you're losing connection on pin 1?

 

[mikeydidit]

Their is way too many variables involved to rely on homemade patch cables. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, most people just use pieces of scrap Cat 5E to make their cables hoping to save money. Thus the term, "Scrap Crap" This is going to be a solid strand of wire and the plugs have to be for solid to work. Most patch cables are made of stranded cable which has a lot more give to it (lets say) so if it is moved it will not effect the cable as easily. Again if you made your patch cables out of stranded cable, their is a plug that is made for just that cable. Most factory made cables are certified and guaranteed to work at whatever Category rating you buy. It's a really small investment vs. having problems to deal with everyday with (iffy cables).

Just my thoughts.

Mike Jones
Louisiana State University Health Sciences center

 

[wires]

It sounds like it is time for a "second opinion" since the contractor supplied cables don't entirely "fix" the problem. You need to find a consultant with the tools and knowledge to test the wiring and jacks for compliance with industry standards.

Several web searches do not turn up any information on "33264 Panel FTP Cat.5e 24xRJ 1U, by LEGRAND".

Another option is "make a deal". If you buy the suggested cables and it doesn't fix the problem then the contractor must replace the jack panels. Be sure you have a legally enforceable document if you follow this path.

 

[Mark568B]

Pabxer, It sounds like you really suspect the panel.
I would try in the following order:

1. Pull the wire off the patch panel and put a workstation jack on (try a different brand).
2. replace IDF patch cord.
3. Replace workstation patch cord.
4 Replace workstation jack with a different brand.

 

[Pabxer]

to mforrence :

We tested it with simple tester and we saw that it "skips" pin 1.

But, we also ( when contractor refused to admit there is something wrong) hired a proffesional company and they tested it with FLUKE OmniScanner on Cat5. 50 % jacks FAILED on test and all of them on 1st pin. People from that company said that patch panels aren't good, but they didn't want to give that statement in written because they say "you only asked for testing, not for analysis of other contractor work". Well, actually, the panels and everything is still under guarantee, and we can't allow someone else opening the panels in this period, we could only hire a proffesional testing to give evidence to contractor for the problem, which he is obliged to solve.
So, it's complicated ... and it seems there were a lot of omissions in project ... but, we aren't responsible for financial part, so we don't really care who will pay at the end ( we or contractor) ... we are just interested to find out what is it ... patch panels (as people from proffesional company claim) or inadequate cables as contractor claims ...

Well, contractor is coming tomorrow morning (again, oh my) , and this time he will bring 30 original cables - but not any original cables, this time with some specific connectors that suit only this model (as he says), which is really funny ... I mean what kind of panels did he install ... seems even he himself doesn't know that ...

 

[wires]

Obviously there is a problem with the panels, wiring or jacks. It could be as simple as a bad punchdown.

The pin 1 problem should be fixed and verified by the OmniScanner guy before letting the contractor off the hook.

If would be interesting to have the OmniScanner guy test some of the patch cables you made. My bet is that your patch cables are fine and the problems are due to defective parts or poor installation. Any contractor that would miss something as obvious as a continuity test ("...simple tester..."skips" pin 1") is questionable at best.

 

[oldtimerbob]

This is a tough one to trouble shoot,
and I agree that when they had someone test the wiring with the tester, they should have gotten<if they didn't> print outs of the results.
This will show the fails,where it fails and why,but it sounds like it's in the wiremap portion so the tester won't go any further with the test till that is corrected. Who knows if the circuits are good for all the rest of the test?


Legrand products are put out by Pass and Seymore in the USA.
(not sure I spelled seymore right),Legrand being a French company that owns pass and seymore.

Did not find the 33264 you mentioned there,as they show M-15 , etc at their website.

1. pin one on the panel is normally your blue pair
2. pin one on the jack is either the orange or the green pair,depending upon if it's a 568A or B set up.

I would contact the manufacture and have a rep come out and look.
Hopefully the installers were certified by them to warranty the job, or you're outta luck as they say except to get the contractor to stand behind his work.
Did they give you test results from the inital install?

NOTE: I never use the pass/seymore stuff myself for communications tho the electrical items are good quality.

 

[mikeydidit]

We use the Pass & Seymour stuff daily, although I was not impressed with their patch panels. The jacks make for a very good, trouble free, install. I am going with wires on this one. If they missed the continuity test they certainly didn't certify their install. Also being this is a 5E install, the deal with using a special patch cable to match the patch panels is iffy at best.

Mike Jones
Louisiana State University Health Sciences center

 

[slorch]

Pabxer, where are you located? The only reference I can find to this panel is on Russian web sites.

Not that it really matters. Your contractor is blowing smoke. There are no Category 5e rated panels that require proprietary cabling. This wouldn't be an electrical contractor, would it?

It depends on how the original contract was worded, and how badly you want to get things working properly. Consider the lost time/productivity to be $$$. You might have been able to hire someone to fix the problem for less. In this case, it seems the warranty offered by the original contractor is worthless. You've been waiting a year for a fix?

I'd ask the testing company for a referral to a reputable contractor, with a requirement in the contract that all lines are to be at least tested, if not certified, and you receive a written report of the results.

 

[naturl]

I had an Ideal crimper once that had a ding on one of the set down pins. It would roll the plastic slightly over the contact making it intermitent at best...

Why is there never a phone in any of the phone closets?

 

[macphoneguy]

well here's My .02 Cents, the fact that you can't find any referances on the web as to the patch panels makes me seriously wonder about them, 2nd if the fluke showed failures on Pin 1 on the patch panel if Money was no object I would replace them with Leviton, Ortronics, or some other brand that does have a referance and training material on the Web,and has been around a while it also make me wonder about when the failures occure and if the rack itself is grounded, I.E. Static

 

[Jtodd]

LEGRAND apprears to be the parent company to Wiremold, Pass & Symore and Ortronics (plus OnQ and a couple other electrical brands).

Also, I'd look at the crimper that you used to make the patch cords in addition to the patch cords. Specifically look and see is the plastic "fin" inbetween pin 1 and pin 2 on th plug is bent. If it is, it will act as a 'cover' to pin 1. I've had this situation come up before, but was from an uncared for patch cord. With as wide spread as the problem is, if this is the case then it's probably the crimper that is bending the fin.

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay

 

[Pabxer]

Thanks for answers. I just got tired and haven't visited forum since my last post.

Anyway, it's now more an internal policy company problem, rather then technical one... because I of course agree that we should hire someone professional to fix the problem instead of messing with an incapable contractor(who is not a certified installer, btw)

Anyway, thanks for your answers and many additional helping informations that appeared through this discussion.

Regards !

 

[cwc3]

90 percent of your problems are home made patch cables i'll bet the crimps that were used were for stranded wire!

 

[ISDNman]

That still does not explain why the facotry cables don't work either.

I only see 2 real possibilities for that:

1) The stuff (patch cable + patchbay combination) is defective

or

2) Somehow pin 1 got damaged. For example if someone had a grossly damaged plug on their tester, and religiously tested every conneciton, then pin 1 could have been damaged all over the place.

Maybe, just maybe, they were damaged by plugging 6 position plugs into the patch jacks. Rumour has it that this can damage the pins, though I have heard mixed reports (see my recent thread on the cabling forum)

best of luck.