As an independent tech doing inside wire work, the rare customer tries to stiff me by never paying the invoice I leave him. It may not be for a lot--eighty, a hundred, whatever. Am I legally entitiled, after repeated requests for payment, to just "reverse" my work, take out my cross connects and leave him without his line(s)? Seems to me that amounts to just returning him to what he had before: no service to his prem. If banks can repossess cars when the loan is in default, why not repossess my labor?
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations IamaSherpa on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Lawyer out there? Little help!
- Thread starter exverizon
- Start date
sleipnir214
Programmer
I will give one observation and one recommendation.
The observation is that your options of action against the client will vary according to your jurisdiction.
In situations like this, where taking the wrong action could result in you leaving yourself wide opent to legal action, I strongly recommend that you take no legal advice for which you have not paid. Find a qualified legal professional in your area and ask him or her.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!
TANSTAAFL!!
The observation is that your options of action against the client will vary according to your jurisdiction.
In situations like this, where taking the wrong action could result in you leaving yourself wide opent to legal action, I strongly recommend that you take no legal advice for which you have not paid. Find a qualified legal professional in your area and ask him or her.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!
TANSTAAFL!!
For this small of an ammount, take them to small-claims court.
They'll get the message.
Of course, you'll also lose them as a client, which may be a good thing.
And no, you cannot "reposess" the software without going through the legal process. If you try, they can just claim you stole it.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
Donate to Katrina relief:
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
They'll get the message.
Of course, you'll also lose them as a client, which may be a good thing.
And no, you cannot "reposess" the software without going through the legal process. If you try, they can just claim you stole it.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
Donate to Katrina relief:
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
When you say that banks reposses items when the payments are not received, they will go through a legal process that allows them to conduct that action. If you were to proceed with removing cross connects without seeking a legal solution or mandate, then you would be subject to legal action against you. For the small amount that you mention, I really don't think it is really worth it.
Why not wait until they request further service and make them wait for a visit until they pay past services. If you really want to, you could let the customer know that if they don't pay, you will inform your competitors to be aware of their conduct. That may scare them into paying.
You really can't inform your competitors though, or you could be sued for slander.
Why not wait until they request further service and make them wait for a visit until they pay past services. If you really want to, you could let the customer know that if they don't pay, you will inform your competitors to be aware of their conduct. That may scare them into paying.
You really can't inform your competitors though, or you could be sued for slander.
>> you will inform your competitors to be aware of their conduct. <<
That's not a good idea -- you can be accused of libel.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
Donate to Katrina relief:
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
That's not a good idea -- you can be accused of libel.
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
Donate to Katrina relief:
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
You wouldn't be the first. I have had to undo things I have done for COD customers who were informed before I came out that payment was required when services are rendered.
Recently an aquaintance who put in a dozen or so oven hoods at a japenese restraunt over the cooking tables went there at two in the morning and took the hoods back because he didn't pay, caused the restaurant business to close down, which for him was more satisfing. Usually when someone owes you money for something you take back, they don't take you to court to try and get it back for free.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
Recently an aquaintance who put in a dozen or so oven hoods at a japenese restraunt over the cooking tables went there at two in the morning and took the hoods back because he didn't pay, caused the restaurant business to close down, which for him was more satisfing. Usually when someone owes you money for something you take back, they don't take you to court to try and get it back for free.
Bo
Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
When you file in small claims court you should be able to include the court fees and the cost of having them served in the amount. This will vary from state to state and county to county.
I would recommend not going and reversing the work unless your contact says that failure to pay will result is a reversal of work.
However if you reverse the work, why would they ever pay you. I'd recommend the small claims court solution. Pretty much no matter what you do, you'll loose the client, but if they don't pay you anyway does that really matter.
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
![[noevil]](/data/assets/smilies/noevil.gif "[noevil] [noevil]")
I would recommend not going and reversing the work unless your contact says that failure to pay will result is a reversal of work.
However if you reverse the work, why would they ever pay you. I'd recommend the small claims court solution. Pretty much no matter what you do, you'll loose the client, but if they don't pay you anyway does that really matter.
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
mattKnight
Programmer
Isn't the provable truth an absolute defence?
Take Care
Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
sleipnir214
Programmer
Most of the time, but not necessarily. It depends on your jurisdiction. In the U.S., the U.K. and a lot of other places, probably.mattKnight said:
But you would have to be very careful in what you say. If you very circumspectly said, "He hasn't yet paid my last bill to him.", you could defend your statement at truth. Start blowing off steam and publicly say something like, "He's a deadbeat who never pays his bills", and and you've screwed yourself -- all he would have to do is show one bill he paid recently and your statement is false. Even innocuous statements, if they contain the least "spin" instead of straight facts, can be problematic if the plaintiff has a good lawyer.
But I think the more important question is, "Will winning a libel lawsuit be worth the trouble, time and expense it will take to win it?"
Mark Twain once said something along the lines of "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt". By the time the dust from the libel suit settled, you'd be out even more money than you were before, and all you would have to show for it was an expensive lesson in civics -- from the inside.
As I see it, you're much better off keeping your mouth shut and filing a suit.
Want the best answers? Ask the best questions!
TANSTAAFL!!
When working for a non-IT company, we would often put liens on work done that was not paid for. We bypassed professional collection agencies by sending three (3) notices to the customer stating that they owed us $$, and if payment was not received, a lien would be put on work done for the amount of the work done in addition to any other out-of-pocket costs. Once the lien was in place, a small claims suit was filed.
Once we did that with the same client a few times, we started receiving our payments regularly.
I would say that for your customers, if you are billing small amounts (and by small I mean less than $500), I would only work on a cash basis. Payment due as soon as work is complete, before I walk out the door.
Hope this helps and I hope you get your $$$!
Once we did that with the same client a few times, we started receiving our payments regularly.
I would say that for your customers, if you are billing small amounts (and by small I mean less than $500), I would only work on a cash basis. Payment due as soon as work is complete, before I walk out the door.
Hope this helps and I hope you get your $$$!
Let's say you buy a new car and borrow the money for the car from ABC company. On your car title, it shows you as the owner and ABC Company as the lien holder. You are not the true owner of the car until there is no lien, or money owed on the vehicle.
Wiki has a good description here:
Wiki has a good description here:
Dollie -
Is this a mechanic's lien (as applied to software, sortof), or is it some other type of lien?
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
Donate to Katrina relief:
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
Is this a mechanic's lien (as applied to software, sortof), or is it some other type of lien?
Chip H.
____________________________________________________________________
Donate to Katrina relief:
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first
A signed contract always helps your standing for payment. Including terms for late payments with legal limit penalties and legal limit interest rates can help. Late fees that are incurred monthly, and interest that acrues monthly can make the hassle worth taking them to court.
Spend the money to have a generic legal contract for services with terms written up, and get it signed. If they intend to pay, they should have no issue. I have seen contracts that state time spent attempting to collect beyond 60 days will be billed as services rendered at the identical rate. I am not sure this is legal, but it might help.
Spend the money to have a generic legal contract for services with terms written up, and get it signed. If they intend to pay, they should have no issue. I have seen contracts that state time spent attempting to collect beyond 60 days will be billed as services rendered at the identical rate. I am not sure this is legal, but it might help.
If this is a repeat customer, then I would keep sending them notice to pay you. It is not worth the waste of time for you to take them to small claims.
What we have done in the past (Software Company but can be related). Send notice that they owe, and keep sending the notice every quarter. When they call you in dire need to get something done, you tell them sure the Job will cost $80, plus the $80 you already owe me, plus the interest of 5% per month totalling $250. And all payments are due before any work is started thank you.
If you don't want them as a repeat customer, sell the bill to a collections agency, they will make his life miserable enough.
Casper
There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".
What we have done in the past (Software Company but can be related). Send notice that they owe, and keep sending the notice every quarter. When they call you in dire need to get something done, you tell them sure the Job will cost $80, plus the $80 you already owe me, plus the interest of 5% per month totalling $250. And all payments are due before any work is started thank you.
If you don't want them as a repeat customer, sell the bill to a collections agency, they will make his life miserable enough.
Casper
There is room for all of gods creatures, "Right Beside the Mashed Potatoes".
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question