Larger IP Handset Installs. 2

[ProviderReborn]

After some variation in opinions here.
Have some 100 Extension IP Handset Installs looming and just wondering how many of your follow this;

http://marketingtools.avaya.com/kno...ects/ipphoneinst/intro/vlan_and_ip_phones.htm

Or are you doing it differently. With additions?
Not at all?

Discuss.

ACA - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony
CCENT - Cisco ICND1
CCNA - Working towards.

 

[chunderman1980]

Have you seen MrIPO lab guide on his site?

 

[kwing112000]

We do overlapping VLANs all the time with no issue. We get good voice quality. The only thing we have issue with is when the phones reboot the computer gets disconnected. we really try to always have a VLAN unless it is just a couple of phones.

 

[MrIPO]

ProviderReborn do not fret of late I have done a large 100+ Pure IP Phone installations both on 4.0 and 4.1 firmware. I strongly recommend that research VLANs and exactly how they operate as no two client networks are the same this helps you so you know what you are talking about in general terms, every switch vendors calls VLANS by different names however at the end of the day it is all really the same.

When implementing the solution you have basically 3 options for configuration of the the VLANS, COS and DHCP settings.
1, Do it all yourself - Not recommended as you are then responable for any issues that arise. - Extra Stress
2, Contract a certified Tech to examine the existing networks and give a set price for the required configuration taking into full note the clients existing setup. Many larger sites already have many VLANS implemented and so we have to slot Voice VLANS into the existing environment.
3, Ask the onsite Technical Support to configure the Network as per the LAN Administrators Guide in addition to some key points that you can give them like the exact sequence the IP Phones take when they boot taking into account DHCP server Scopes and Subnet requirements.

We tend to uses options 2 and 3 and it leaves us open to put the pressure back onto whoever programmed the environment, we can simply get on and make sure the solution works from an IP Office point of view.

When the configuration has been done Prior to cut over make sure all the model phones that you have correct boot and are assigned to the correct VLAN, and that they are running the correct firmware version for the core you are running on the IP Office. If it is not DO NOT CUT THE SITE OVER, wait until the phones are working correct and then cut over.

There are some good tools in Sys-Monitor for viewing the Registered IP and non-Registered IP Phones and to see which FW they are running.

You also have options of exactly where to position the IP Office in the scheme of things Data VLAN (For BLF Updates) or Voice VLAN and then hock LAN 2 to the data for BLF updates, both options have there up and downside, just depends on the exaclt environment you are installing to and location of the client PC’s in reference to BLF Updates.

One last point, we tend to if Hotdesking is required use Dummy Base IP Ports and Dummy Extensions, and then have the users Hot desk onto them.

Hope these points/advice help you, and please feel free to ask any further questions that you may have.


Mr IPO

ACA - Avaya Certified Associate
ACS - Avaya Certified Specialist
ACI - Avaya Certified Instructor

http://www.iporesource.com

 

[ProviderReborn]

MrIPO that is some fantastic advice.
Thanks for your time in writing that.

ACA - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony
CCENT - Cisco ICND1
CCNA - Working towards.

 

[mattKnight]

Chumpy old chap!


How do you do your network assesment (CIRS) etc. Do you use a contractor or do it yourselves (which tools do you use)

Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[jamie77]

How do you do your Network Assesment Matt?????

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

http://www.alliedcom.co.uk

Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[mattKnight]

jamie - same way as you I look at it, cross me fingers and hope....

We've only done 1 site that needed it - it was contracted out

Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[kurthansen]

Provider,

I thought you were working on your CCNA? This would be a perfect time to practice what you are learning. I have done a bunch of installs but not accross my own routers so I have a default switch config that I paste on my switches and change as needed. Since I work on ShoreTel and Cisco it applys to them also.

 

[ProviderReborn]

matt/jamie.

I find its really hard to sell the network assesment into customers sites.
No IT dept like to admit that they actually have no idea what they are doing and the network is cr&p.
I fully appreciate its uses and what it does to protect us BP's against shoddy networks and help us get Avaya support.

But it does amaze me how many sites still use hubs and a customer wonders why I wont look at 2 softconsole issues where reception PCs are running through a £5 hub and are fixed at 10MB 1/2 duplex.

Any hows back on subject.
Had the site meeting and all was really good. Customer was actually very good at his job and knew his network inside out.
Im going in next week to ensure his bits are done right.
We have been allocated a Voice VLAN, I have asked him to fix up his ports to 100MB FD on his distribution switches and also ensure QOS is set.
We have also been given an address within his server VLAN however this may change so we can put the reception PC in the same VLAN for BLF updates.

The only thing I am concerned about is DHCP. The DHCP server has no option 176. I dont know weather to just allow Dynamic address allocation and set the rest from the 46**.txt file.
Any one have any views or had issues with doing this.

To be honest due to a recent job change for me I want to ensure this goes 100%.
Whilst we have IP sites most are between 50/60 handsets and some of these are manually set from the handsets.

I try where possible to follow Avaya's way but am genuinely interested in others experiences on this topic.


ACA - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony
CCENT - Cisco ICND1
CCNA - Working towards.

 

[jamie77]

Do you mean no 176 available to set in the DHCP server??? What server is it?? Win Servers can add this no problem. DHCP helps alot with IP Phone instal IMO.

On QOS. I can't really give the voice of experience as we don't sell many pure IP systems.

The biggest we have is 60-70 IP phones on a network mainly running Citrix so doesn't have the broadcasts of a Win Client n/w. This had no VLANs just Diff Serv on the Layer 3 Linksys switches. Site has never had an issue with quality.

I am also tring to get some Ericsson IP Phones working on a BP250. This is on Layer 2 Ciscos with VLANs. A real pain in the arse. The VLAN set is causing all sorts of problems and we are now into week 3 of getting it working. I have them all working without VLANS. I think this has something to do with the way the Ciscos deal with the ARP table but waiting for the IT firm to sort this.

Jamie Green

ACA:Implement - IP Office
ACS:Implement - IP Office

http://www.alliedcom.co.uk

Fooball is not a matter of life and death-It is far more important!!!!

 

[kwing112000]

If they cant do an option 176 then you will be stuck doing all the phones the manual way. you will have to enter the file server in order for them to get to the 46xx files. You can do 176 on just about any server out there. we have done it on windows, Novell and i think even a linux server. what do they have that wont do it. what we do is add a string in the data scope that tells the phones what VLAN to boot into then when they reboot into the proper VLAN they get the full 176 string.

 

[tlpeter]

It is not that hard to do the manualy addressing all those phone's
Make sure that it can reach the tftp server
You have to unpack the phone's and put them down on the desk
After ten phone;s you t typ in the addresses blind
I did a 3 site scn with another 16 remote sites with about 200 ip phone's
All are manually done
The only thing is that you must have a very documentation !



ACA - Implement IP Office
ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[kurthansen]

If you do use VLANs you could have two dhcp servers at that point. Just make sure you don't do a trunk port to each of the DHCP servers so they don't try to serve both VLANs. Also you won't want IP Helper command. Then the vlan won't broadcast the DHCP requests to the other vlan.

 

[MrIPO]

FYI
Even Cisco Routers can be configured for Option 176.
Any decent DHCP server should support Option 176 or have the abilty to configure iy, if it does not any future expansion of the internal addressing and future applications will be restricted as many Vendors are now Using DHCP scope options for the configuration of applicances.

Could be time for a suggested upgrade ?

I try never to statically configure large sites as you are asking for issues in the long run, there is allways a way to get DHCP operational on the site. Word of Warning Never use the Built in DHCP on the IPO for larger sites it is NOT built for the job and is very restricted, to be honest I do not think I can think of one site that actually uses it, i use it only to get onto the box orginally!

Mr IPO

ACA - Avaya Certified Associate
ACS - Avaya Certified Specialist
ACI - Avaya Certified Instructor

http://www.iporesource.com

 

[kflounders]

Provider,
Could you contact me about some work out your way?
kflounders at comstar-usa dot com

 

[big70]

After implementing 7.000+ IP-Phone,s this year.

I can say if you don,t now nothing about networking your custemors are screwd or try to team up with a good network engineer......

Altering fixed vlan,s and ip-addresses are you nuts.

Can,t believe cor let you do that.........


Greets Peter

 

[tlpeter]

That was with another company
I am too lazy now

ACA - Implement IP Office
ACS - Implement IP Office
ACA - Voice Services Management
______________
Women and cats can do as they please and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea!

 

[ProviderReborn]

kflounders. I am not too sure what you mean. Could you elabourate.

Regards

ACA - IP Office Implement
ACA - IP Telephony
CCENT - Cisco ICND1
CCNA - Working towards.

 

[kflounders]

I have an install in St. Albans that I would like to contract your company to do.