Is there really any money left for MCSEs? 8

[yokeydokey]

Three or four years ago, a person with a college degree and a few years experience with Microsoft products could make a pot full of money. (That's why we work, right?) Then, while I was in the process of getting MS exams out of the way, the bottom fell out. I've recently seen MCSEs working for $12US/hour - janitor's wages. I bagged the certification strategy and got into management. So, where's the money? What's the market look like for an MCSE these days? If you reply, note where you are (city, country, etc.)

 

[gurner]

"I could teach a blind ape with only two toes to admin. a Windows 2000 network in 20 days"

Most people 'here' could admin a Win2k network

but probably in excess of 90% of people that use computers (as part of their Marketing/Sales/Management e.t.c. jobs)have absolutly no idea what they are doing half the time.

And most don't want to know!

(don't get to upset if they can't grasp the fundamentals if IP telephony/networking or find the concept of being able to use a phone in a power cut a little baffling)

They don't care if you have an MCSE or not, do you think the accounts department think "ah, another MCSE qualified lets lets offer him more than Stan with the 'A' Levels"

So many management types however place so much importance on how many MCSEs they have so they can present it to a prospective client as a carrot of 'Their Expertise'

I personally think it because once you have more than 3 you get discounted MSDN and Technet subscriptions and make it look like you're at the forefront coz you had a copy of .NET server when it was still Code Name 'Whistler' or What ever!

I have no qualifications (yet) and i know that getting my CV even looked at will be difficult because it doesn't say MCSE. And i may not have a useful IT based University degree but i started after qualifing from the University of life (doh!)

When someone does look at my CV and i get called in for interview, i guarantee i'll be in just a good place then you ('Generalisation! not you personally') when i start selling my self, and i'll be backed up with the enthusiasim and knowledge of my choosen profession, just minus a bit of paper which doesn't mean nought if you sell yourself well enough.

Just my little rant!

 

[scarecrowbp]

If anyone doubts that the market is tough right now, then they need to go looking for a job. What will help you get hired is attitude, no not a negative or a "I'm great you better hire me" one. Just a can do attitude. Go into any job interview and first make sure that you really want to work for them. If yes, then decide what you are willing to accept. Are you willing to work helpdesk even if you feel your skills are beyond that type of work. Are you willing to be a customer service type, are you willing to work on their phone systems, or the network, or web development? Will you learn new aspects of this field? Flexabiility is essential nowadays.

I see lots of paper MCSE's, they have no exp. but they have a cert and they think that is all they need. But some of them see the bigger picture. They see that the MCSE is just something to open the door for them. Once inside they bust there butts to learn how things really work. Those are the guys that make the big bucks. Well not that big. But still, they are the ones who move up.

 

[rog2054]

I'm in Yorkshire in the UK.

This thread has got me worried a bit.

For example, I saw a job advertised recently which wanted: 2+ years experience, MCSE, CCNP, Exchange, Office etc etc...and the salary was 15-17k.

What's even more depressing is this seems to be the going market rate, and i don't even have that to offer.

I have a B.Sc degree, 2 MCPs, Novell CNA, Comptia A+ and Cisco CCNA. I have lots of hobby-experience with all of the above software/hardware, but no commericial experience.

What can i realisically expect to get job-wise? I applied for a job on 13k which didnt ask for any qualifications, just knowledge of networking - not quite how i imagined the real world to be after all the years of study i've done. If i'd have left school at 16 i'd probably be earning more than that by now!

Any suggestions as to what i should do? I was considering doing another 2 MCPs to become MCSA certified, but is there any point?

 

[jd1191]

Rog2054, Im pretty much in the same boat as you. I just switched my degree from business management to Network Adm. I am totally a newbie to this stuff, but have a high potential to network. When Sidibias said " This problem that I am living is real" and it is for all of us. What about being a CCNA? Are they better off? So what I am asking is if you where a freshman in college what classes would u take? Please no abbreviations.

 

[jtb]

Just read a book that hit the point.

1. Figure out where you want to live

2. Draw a 40 mile (diameter) circle around that spot

3. Make a list of all companies with more than 10 employees within that circle (I know it's huge if you picked NYC, London, Tokyo, etc.)

4. Pick the top five based on who you like the best at that moment

5. Research them completely: magazine articles, who's who, financial reports, buy their products, read the sales literature, chat up their customers, investigate their competition, know them inside and out

6. Develop five _detailed_ ways to improve that company

7. Send an impactful letter (not email) to the CEO, CIO, or some other CxO (unless you were able to find out the manager over the department you want to work for) telling her or him you did some research and here are your 5 high-level conclusions that you'd like to discuss in more detail (save the details for when they call you back)

8. If if doesn't work with the first five, try it again with the next five...

eh, voila! You're hired (and in good with the top brass to boot)

Only one catch... you have to work hard to get noticed, so don't try bluffing--ever. If you do, they'll just sail on by...
JTB
Solutions Architect
MCSE-NT4, MCP+I, MCP-W2K, CCNA, CCDA,
CTE, MCIWD, i-Net+, Network+
(MCSA, MCSE-W2K, MCIWA, SCSA, SCNA in progress)

 

[NickFerrar]

£15k-17k sounds like a wishful-thinking public sector advert, from what I've seen the current rate seems to be around £25k for someone with a couple of years experience and a qualification.

As for the last poster - that might work for small business but I doubt the CEO etc would even read the email in a large company. Certainly in ours their PA's filter their email and anything that looks remotely like someone looking for a job would either be forwarded to the HR department or just deleted.

 

[jtb]

NickFerrar, reread my posting... nowhere in the letter did I say ask for a job... and I specifically stated not email...

Email won't make the point. And it's too easy--as you pointed out--to lose it...

If you do your research well and cxarefully identify ways for a company to improve, they'll be offering you the work without you ever asking...

Now, it won't work everywhere; but if you follow those steps, you'll be at least 8 steps ahead of the folks who think a good resume is the key to getting hired...
JTB
Solutions Architect
MCSE-NT4, MCP+I, MCP-W2K, CCNA, CCDA,
CTE, MCIWD, i-Net+, Network+
(MCSA, MCSE-W2K, MCIWA, SCSA, SCNA in progress)

 

[heftyprawn]

rog2054, I'm afraid that the painful truth is that without commercial experience you'll probably have to take an entry level job on around £13K - £15K because most employers do want to know that you can cut it in the real world, there is a huge difference between getting qualified and actually doing the job. Having said that the good news is that if you are good at the job and prepared to work hard and keep learning you should be able to double or even treble this salary within 2 or three years, which you wouldn't do having left school at 16. If you do get into networking learn as much as you can about security and firewalls.
As for the job wanting someone with all those qualifications for £15K to £17K, they'll not get anyone. No self respecting CCNP with good experience would be looking at jobs paying less than £30K - £35K.