Is 1gb dual channel better than 1.5gb+ single channel 8

[werD420]

I have 2x512mb kingston hyperx plugged up dual channel in my system. i have two open slots and another stick of 512(ultra) and a 1GB ocz stick thats gone for rma at the moment but if i plug in the 512 the bios post as singlechannel. I generally use this as my dev machine so i have a lot of documents open at once and i could really use the expanded memory. should i fork out the money to get two more sticks of memory or can i make do with what i have. ie is the bandwith loss gonna make that big of an impact on what im doin in comparison to the benefit of having almost double the memory.

Athlon 64 2.4 Ghz 939
Kingston HyperX 2x512MB


MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[Ploper001]

Depends if you're ever going to use more than 1GB of RAM at once...

 

[cdogg]

In most situations, the 1GB dual-channel will outperform 1.5GB single-channel.

Thing is that the hypertransport bus that AMD's socket 939 uses will frequently go well beyond 400MHz and all the way up to 1GHz. When you run in single-channel, you are capping the memory bus at 400MHz. This can be a significant bottleneck at times when a lot of data is being fed through the pipe to the processor. Encoding audio/video is a good example.

Dual-channel gets the memory bandwidth up to 800MHz to help compensate for much of that bottleneck. The question is whether or not you use an application (or many applications) that would fair better with an extra 512MB of memory than it would with a fast gigabyte.

I'd put my money on the 1GB!! But that's just me...

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[wahnula]

Pssst....cdogg knows his RAM...

One way to test would be to download SiSoft's Sandra benchmarking app:

http://www.overclockers.com.au/sandra.php

and run a memory bandwidth check, and compare both configurations. Also check and compare other system performance parameters, and report back. See if you can get cdogg to make it interesting...

I'd put my money on the 1GB!!

Tony

 

[werD420]

Thanks all for the responses. Stars all around. Im downloadng sandra now and ill try running it in both setups. Ill let you know how it goes

MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[werD420]

well i ran the test and now im a bit more confused. I havent even gotten to the 1.5GB yet it seems i may not be running in dual channel from the results i gt, This is quite strange as the bios post 128 Bit Dual Channel on the memory test but i suppose there's something else i need to do here to make this work.
here's some of my benchmark results
SiSoftware Sandra

Benchmark Results
RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 5689 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 5710 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.

Int Buff'd iSSE2 (Integer STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 5831MB/s
Scaling : 5552MB/s
Addition : 5689MB/s
Triad : 5685MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 89% (estimated)

Float Buff'd iSSE2 (Float STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 5753MB/s
Scaling : 5826MB/s
Addition : 5650MB/s
Triad : 5614MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 89% (estimated)

Performance Test Status
Run ID : DBB on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 at 7:44:09 AM
Memory Used by Test : 512MB
NUMA Support : No
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
Multi-Core Test : No
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : P0C0T0
System Timer : 3.6MHz
Page Size : 4kB
Use Large Memory Pages : No

Features
SSE Technology : Yes
SSE2 Technology : Yes
SSE3 Technology : Yes
Supplemental SSE3 Technology : No
HTT - Hyper-Threading Technology : No

Chipset 1
Model : Acer Labs Incorporated (ALi/ULi) ULi M1689 K8 Northbridge with AGP and hypertransport
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 800MHz (1600MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 8-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 4800MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks
Memory Controller in Processor : Yes

Chipset 2
Model : Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 800MHz (1600MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 8-bit / 16-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 4800MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 2 Memory Banks
Bank 0 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-8 (tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS) CR1
Bank 1 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-8 (tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS) CR1
Channels : 1
Bank Interleave : 2-way
Speed : 2x 200MHz (400MHz data rate)
Width : 128-bit
Memory Controller in Processor : Yes
Cores per Memory Controller : 1 Unit(s)
Maximum Memory Bus Bandwidth : 6400MB/s (estimated)



Is there something im reading incorrectlor is there a trick beyond the bios to operating at the 800 Mhz bandwith?

MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[paparazi]

It looks like you are also running at default latency settings, which is a shame when you have paid top dollar for HyperX.
This performance memory needs overvolting as standard to run at it's designed tighter timings.

Something like 2-2-3-6 at T1 settings with around 0.2 overvolt!
This is not overclocking! these are it's designed settings.
You must however look at the exact specs for this memory to set correctly.
Also to run dual channel you must first have the memory inserted into the correct slots for this mode.
Again see your manual
Martin

We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[cdogg]

werD420,
I'm guessing you have 4 DIMM slots. Make sure you have both DIMMs in the same colored slot if that's the case. Check your manual to be sure, but usually they are color-coded like that to tell you which ones should be paired together for dual-channel.

wahnula,
Just when I try to cover my a** and say it could go either way, you put it back out on the line for me!! Can I bet stars instead of money?
[LOL]

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[wahnula]

Can I bet stars instead of money?

You're on.

 

[werD420]

Ok so after checking my great multi language manual from chainteck only thing ive found is this

Due to CPU specifications limitation, two DDR400 memory
modules inserted into DIMM1/3, three DDR400 into DIMM1/2/3,
or four DDR400 into DIMM1/2/3/4 is not recommended.

Is that saying that i shouldnt have ddr 400 in all 4 slots?.. was the chainteck s1689 a bad idea? It seem my memory should be rated at 2-3-2-6-1


here's some info from kingston

DESCRIPTION:
Kingston's KHX3200AK2/1G is a kit of two 64M x 64-bit (512MB) DDR400 SDRAM (Synchronous
DRAM) CL2 memory modules. Total kit capacity is 1GB (1024MB). The components on each module
include sixteen 32M x 8-bit (8M x 8-bit x 4 Bank / 200MHz, 5ns) DDR400 SDRAM in TSOP packages.
Each 184-pin DIMM uses gold contact fingers and requires +2.6V. The electrical and mechanical
specifications are as follows:
FEATURES:
Power supply : Vdd: 2.6V ± 0.2V, Vddq: 2.6V ± 0.2V
Double-data-rate architecture; two data transfers per clock cycle
Bidirectional data strobe(DQS)
Differential clock inputs(CK and CK)
DLL aligns DQ and DQS transition with CK transition
Programmable Read latency 2 (clock)
Programmable Burst length (2, 4, 8)
Programmable Burst type (sequential & interleave)
Timing Reference: 2-3-2-6-1 at +2.6V
Edge aligned data output, center aligned data input
Auto & Self refresh, 7.8us refresh interval(8K/64ms refresh)
Serial presence detect with EEPROM
High Performance Heat Spreader
PCB : Height 1.250” (34.75mm), double sided component
PERFORMANCE:
Clock Cycle Time (tCK) 5ns (min.) / 10ns (max.)
Row Cycle Time (tRC) 55ns (min.)
Refresh Row Cycle Time (tRFC) 65ns (min.)
Row Active Time (tRAS) 40ns (min.) / 100,000ns (max.)
Power (IDD0) 3.744 W (operating)
UL Rating 94 V - 0
Operating Temperature 0o C to 70o C
Storage Temperature -55o C to +150o C

Im currently trying to adjust some bios setting to match but i cant seem to find a voltage adjustent for my memory. Is my motherboard going to be the bottleneck? chaintech s1689. Id really like to be able to compare the diff in the setups


Thanks again for your help

MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[werD420]

Here's the results after ajusting the timings mor apropiately but i stlseto beat 40 mhz

SiSoftware Sandra

Benchmark Results
RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 5830 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 5731 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.

Int Buff'd iSSE2 (Integer STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 5905MB/s
Scaling : 5894MB/s
Addition : 5730MB/s
Triad : 5794MB/s
Bandwidth Efficiency : 90% (estimated)

Chipset 1
Model : Acer Labs Incorporated (ALi/ULi) ULi M1689 K8 Northbridge with AGP and hypertransport
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 808MHz (1616MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 8-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 4848MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks
Memory Controller in Processor : Yes

Chipset 2
Model : Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 808MHz (1616MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 8-bit / 16-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 4848MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 2 Memory Banks
Bank 0 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.0-3-2-6 (tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS) CR1
Bank 1 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.0-3-2-6 (tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS) CR1
Channels : 1
Bank Interleave : 2-way
Speed : 2x 202MHz (404MHz data rate)
Width : 128-bit
Memory Controller in Processor : Yes
Cores per Memory Controller : 1 Unit(s)
Maximum Memory Bus Bandwidth : 6464MB/s (estimated)


Im going to try and swap the pairings to dimm 3&4 (colored black instead of blue) to see if that helps. but this has got me a bit confused asto why the bios is posting dual channel but im just not getting the bandwith bump

MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[wahnula]

was the chainteck s1689 a bad idea?

Well, considering that Chaintech no longer makes MBs nor seems to support their old ones that argument appears to be gaining strength. Maybe the Internet Wayback machine will still have a copy of the manual stored for our perusal.

FWIW in the picture I viewed (review, not bad at all) the RAM sticks are in the black slots.

Due to CPU specifications limitation, two DDR400 memory
modules inserted into DIMM1/3, three DDR400 into DIMM1/2/3,
or four DDR400 into DIMM1/2/3/4 is not recommended.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe the manual on the driver CD has better instructions?

Google's cache of the s1689:

* Four 184-pin DDR DIMMs up to 4GB
* Supports Dual Channel DDR266/333/400 memory

It is sad that a manufacturer would purge support pages for its discontinued products...makes community support that much more difficult. I was hoping to have a look at the manual.

 

[werD420]

Thanks again for your continued input. yeah im definately sarting to realize why the price was nice on this mobo. I did a pdf search on google for Uli s1689 and found the one the manual that came with it but its very vague/

get it while you can..

http://www.chaintech.co.kr/download.php?sm_id=4&file_nm=S1689.pdf

i changed over to a different pairing ie black instead of blue and the results in sandra were identical. i believe that this mobo should support all the way up to 1000 Mhz bandwith at least on one of the pairs, at least the Memclock Index Value goes all the way up to 250 Mhz ie pc4000 DDR 500. does windows play any roe in this bandwith utilization or should i keep poking in the bios?


MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[cdogg]

Maximum Memory Bus Bandwidth : 6464MB/s (estimated)

This means you are getting dual-channel. Ever wonder what the 3200 in PC3200 stood for? In single-channel mode, a PC3200 DIMM maxes out at 3200MB/s. In dual-channel, that's doubled of course to roughly 6400MB/s. Because your motherboard slightly overclocked the memory to 202MHz, your bandwidth is actually a tad higher than that. But rest assured that it is dual-channel.

So if you run your benchmarks correctly, you will see that adding another 512MB will drop that bandwidth back down to about 3200MB/s even though you now have more memory. The question remains which is better for you. Throw that extra 512 in there and see what happens. You can always pair that up with another 512 later as well...

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[werD420]

Thanks For Your help all

MCP, .Net Solutions Development <%_%>

 

[paparazi]

Obviously if you don't want to loose those tighter timings as well as the dual channel mode, then the extra 512 stick needs to be of the same performance ie: HyperX or similar.

Martin

We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[Freestone]

Doesn't the Width : 128-bit line item also indicate dual channel, cdogg?

 

[cdogg]

Sure does. Didn't even think about it...good catch!

 

[Jito463]

Theoretically, you shouldn't be able to run 3 sticks of RAM on an Athlon64. I know when they were introduced, it was stated that it would not work. Perhaps changes were made later to support it, but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[cdogg]

Jito,
You are thinking about running 3 sticks of RAM that are the same "size". If so, then you are correct. The downside (as talked about in most of this thread) is that the bandwidth will drop from dual-channel to single-channel.

However, you shouldn't confuse the situation here with running 3 sticks in ALL situations. There are exceptions where that's fine. For example, I can put two 256MB sticks on one channel, and a 512MB stick on the other. If I do that, I still have dual-channel.

So running 3 sticks isn't always a negative.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884