IE slowly crumbling? 1

[OsakaWebbie]

I have XP Home, not Pro (with SP 1a according to the CD-ROM sleeve), but hopefully this is still the right forum for my question. Also, it's probably not important for this, but I have the Japanese version.

I've had this computer for about a year, and installed Windows myself (the computer came without an OS). It was working very well for many months, but in the last few months various functionality has gradually started breaking. All the things I can think of off-hand have been related to Internet Explorer (v. 6.0.2800.1106.xpsp2.030422-1633). Here are a few that come to mind, in the order they broke:
(1) At first, I stopped being able to view HTML source code when there had been a run-time error on the page (the time I would most want to see it!); then it stopped letting me view source ever - I select the menu or right-click menu item and it simply does nothing (if I'm really determined, my only recourse is to save the page to my hard drive and then open it in Notepad).
(2) If I try to save an image found on a page, or an image that is a page (URL is the image itself), the only file type it will let me save as is BMP, even though the original image is JPG, TIF, or whatever. The only way I can save it correctly is if there is a link to the image and I choose "Save Target As..." - then it gives me all the file type options.
(3) If I click on a link in an email message (in my third-party POP mail application) and there is not already at least one instance of IE running, it says, "Browser not available", even though it used to be able to start it up regardless.
(4) The one that broke just yesterday and is the last straw for me is that windows opened by Javascript don't get scroll bars even if they need them (example, the smileys and TGML popups in Tek-Tips).

Has anyone heard of this kind of problem? Any suggestions on what steps I should take before I lose all ability to access the Internet?

 

[OsakaWebbie]

I was just reminded of one more, which broke sometime around the same time as (2) and (3) above. I don't know if it's another symptom of my mysterious IE erosion or something deeper in Windows:

When I click on a media link, RealOne always complains that it can't find the clip, the temporary file that IE supposedly just stored. The path it's looking in is C:/Documents and Settings/Karen/Local Settings/Temporary Internet Files/Content.IE5/<random alphanumeric directory name>/<some filename>.mps (at least that's the extension for the file I tried to play just now). The really strange thing is that if I click on the Browse button in that RealOne dialog, the whole path appears to exist but the file doesn't, but if I look in Explorer, there are no subdirectories at all below Temporary Internet Files! Is the Content.IE5 directory there or not?... I can't be sure... (imagine Twilight Zone music)

One more point about this whole thing: I noticed that the latest buzz on this forum is about SP2, but before someone tries to suggest that as a solution to my problems, let me inform you that I could find no mention of SP2 on Microsoft's Japan site, leading me to conclude that it is not yet available for the Japanese version of XP. And even in English, it looks like it is still in development testing phase for Home Edition - I assume from all the talk on the forum that for Pro it has been officially released, if only recently. Anyway, the point is that that is not an option for me yet.

 

[KiloZ]

This may be a stupid question, but have you tried to uninstall/reinstall IE?
I've never heard of such a problem with IE, especially the slow demise you seem to be experiencing.

All great accomplishments were once considered impossible.

 

[linney]

Here are some general options for you.

Try repairing windows by running it over itself. You will lose all your windows updates (no problem if you substitute them with SP2) but your files and programs will be untouched.

How to Perform an In-Place Upgrade (Reinstallation) of Windows XP (Q315341)

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q315/3/41.asp

Run the System File Checker program from the Run Box by typing.....Sfc /Scannow in it and have your XP CD handy.


How to Reinstall or Repair Internet Explorer and Outlook Express in Windows XP (Q318378)

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q318/3/78.asp

You can reinstall IE in Windows XP by clicking Start, Run and entering the following command:

rundll32.exe setupapi,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132 c:\windows\inf\ie.inf

(where c: is your Windows drive).

You will need to have your XP CD available. If you re-install remember to update it.


Try an alternative browser.

Can't View Source in IE
Try to View Source In Internet Explorer, but nothing happens?

http://www.mredkj.com/tutorials/tips_ie.html

810978 - Internet Explorer Saves Images As Bitmaps (.bmp Files)

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;810978

IE 6.0 on XP Pro WON'T LOAD UNLESS I PRESS F5
thread608-809805

211068 - Unable to Maximize or Resize Internet Explorer Pop-Up Windows

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;211068&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

308260 - How to Troubleshoot Script Errors in Internet Explorer

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;308260&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

 

[OsakaWebbie]

Thanks, linney, for all the tips and links. Per your advice I reinstalled Windows (which, of course, includes IE, now an older version than I had, but which used to work). That seems to have solved 2 of the 5 symptoms that I can remember: I can now start up IE fresh via a link in an email, and media seems to work better (I guess RealOne saying it can't support a file format is an improvement over losing track of the file itself ). But I still can't view source, save an image correctly, or get a scroll bar on Tek-tips' Emoticons popup (perhaps someone else could click on that link and verify that something hasn't gone wrong on the code end recently - it gives you a scroll bar, right?).

The next thing I tried was to delete the files in Temporary Internet Files, using the selection in IE's Tools/Options. But although I tried twice, both times it hung (permanent hourglass, no files deleted as far as I can tell). I don't want to just delete them by hand, because it appears that cookie files and cache files are mixed together in that directory, and I would prefer not to wipe all my cookies (for example, I like the fact that Tek-Tips knows who I am when I come here). Any thoughts on why IE might be hanging trying to clean up my files?

Also, when I click on Delete Files, the confirmation dialog that comes up has an optional checkbox that says "Delete all offline content" even though the confirmation already is talking about deleting all the files - what does that option do, and if I ever get this to work without hanging, should I be selecting it?

 

[smah]

The scroll bar problem is related to the Tek-Tips redesign and is not a a problem with your browser.

 

[OsakaWebbie]

Yeah, I just now figured that out, by trying it on another computer.

Well, in the meantime my husband pointed out that I can avoid IE by using Disk Cleanup to delete my Temporary Internet Files. That worked, and solved the remaining two IE problems: image saving and source viewing.

Two questions remain in my mind. First, should I be concerned that Windows is noticably slower after the reinstall? Or is it just taking time to repopulate some sort of internal cache based on my usage habits or something, and it will get better?

Second, my Temporary Internet Files directory contents is still a mystery - can someone shed light on this? Even Explorer itself doesn't agree with itself - the folders pane, file listing, and status bar currently say there are 821 files (mainly cookies and icon files, a little bit of cache from testing after cleanup), but Properties says there are over 10,000 files and 33 folders! What in the world is going on? Yes, I do have my settings such that it should be showing all files, including hidden and system files.

Thanks again.

 

[linney]

After your re-install you must put back all your updates from Windows (or get SP2), this is why your IE is an older version.

FAQ779-4784 may help.

windows XP running very slow
thread779-796508

It also sounds like your Index.dat files have been corrupted and may benefit from a total deletion of the T.I.F. folder and thereby allowing XP to recreate a new folder for you after a reboot or new login.

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/delcache.htm

Although Cookies are shown and listed in the T.I.F. they are actually stored in a separate folder -
C:\Documents and Settings\Usernamexxxx\Cookies

 

[OsakaWebbie]

Thanks for the FAQ about slowness - I took the advice about services and went through the entire list, carefully considering what I can turn off. I also increased the virtual memory and turned off menu transitions. I haven't worked with it enough yet to know how much speed improvement I have, but I am especially glad to learn about the different services and be able to make more of my own decisions about what Windows runs. (I'd like to make some more, too - there are some annoying things I would like to get rid of that are apparently not services - but that can wait for another time and another thread.)

But the T.I.F. thing is still somewhat mysterious to me. Following the advice of the mvps.org article, I made another admin user and used it to delete my T.I.F., then logged back on as me. Properties says that T.I.F. now contains 10 files and 5 folders, which sounds about right for what would be re-created. But clicking on the directory, the status bar says 700 items (most are cookies - are those just links to the Cookies directory and don't count as files?), and it still doesn't show any subdirectories! You mentioned a file called index.dat - where is that located, and should I have deleted it too? There is no such file listed currently in T.I.F., but since I know Explorer is lying to me about some things , maybe it's there and I just can't see it... Any thoughts?

 

[bcastner]

You will not see index.dat or subfolder information if IE is open.

The best way to clean the TIF as the article details is to do it in Safe Mode.

 

[OsakaWebbie]

IE wasn't open at the time. Right after I deleted the TIF, I logged back in as me and immediately opened only Explorer to look at the directory structure. Where is index.dat supposed to be, if I were able to see it?

I can try it again in safe mode in a few hours (I can't reboot now because it's the file server for our home network and my husband is accessing it, but I will probably be up before him in the morning), but I will be surprised if I get different results - it sure looked like it really deleted the directory. The only mention of safe mode that I see in the article is "in extreme cases" in the section "Administrator Account Problems"; in my case the only reason I made a new account to do it is that I don't know the password for the Administrator account (when I reinstalled Windows yesterday it didn't ask me to set one, and if it asked me when I installed the first time, I don't remember). My regular account is admin-level (bad practice, perhaps, but I do maintenance on the server), so nothing drastic was needed - just make another admin account. But I can try again in safe mode in the morning if you think it will help.

 

[linney]

The Content.IE5 folder from the T.I.F. folder is a bit complicated all round with files hidden and unaccessible even to Administrators and even some windows program like search or even DOS,(being controlled by various Desktop.ini files and Index.dat files).

You might want to research the whole story at this site. The article is Windows 9x related but the story of Desktop.ini and Index.dat files is pretty much applicable to XP. It gets interesting around this paragraph "5.0. HOW MICROSOFT DOES IT".

http://sillydog.org/mshidden.html

Another perhaps easier way of controlling these folders is with some third party program like Window"s Washer from Webroot.

http://www.webroot.com/wb/products/windowwasher/index.php

 

[SCFROMDC]

A standard technique for this that usually works for me, step by step is;
Using spybot AND adaware, I remove all spyware-adware.
Download an eval of system mechanic and clean all the junk.
Remove ALL BHO's, and I mean all of them...manually.
Clean the registry with system mechanic or another util, two or three times.
Download the IEAK from microsoft and build a standard install synched with windows update...
Use the switches available at microsoft to FORCE INSTALL the new ie installation.
Clean the registry again with system mechanic or another util, two or three times..
reboot.

Seems annoying, huh? It works alot for me...

http://www.deadcenter.us

I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
Confucius

 

[OsakaWebbie]

The stuff in that mshidden.html article is indeed scary, but at least it's telling me that my TIF file structure isn't necessarily broken just because I'm getting mixed signals about its content - it's just that information about my file structure is being kept from me via smoke and mirrors, something I had suspected about other directories for a long time. (I'm glad you posted the link to the sillydog copy of the article - although I'm no MS defender, I find the domain name of the original source offensive.)

While we're on the topic, and since you seem to know all the good web articles out there, linney, do you know of some info regarding how aliases for directory names work? In the Japanese version of Windows it is particularly apparent that such aliases exist - in fact, I guess I don't know for sure that the mechanism is there in the English version, so if you don't know what I'm talking about, that's okay. An example of when this aliasing was very obvious was when I made a copy of my Favorites folder (I happen to know it's called Favorites, even though normally I only see the Japanese name) on a totally different drive for safekeeping. I wanted to rename it from its original Japanese name to something more informative, since I might end up with copies of more than one user's Favorites. But after I renamed it, the original, real Favorites folder's Japanese name changed too! I guess I was changing a global entry in an alias table somewhere that equated that name with any directory called Favorites. (For what I was trying to do, I had to make a new folder and copy the contents, rather than copy the whole folder.) If these kinds of aliases exist in the English version and you know of an article that explains how it (or other sneaky stuff like that) works under the hood, that would be helpful. (I actually would be perfectly happy to simply turn off the aliases and just see the real directory names, but that's probably asking too much.)

SCFROMDC, you are to be admired for working so hard to try to sanitize your system, but I guess I don't take my computer quite that seriously (maybe I should, but I'm pretty busy with other things). After all, I don't even know what you mean by BHO's - I guess I have to learn a lot of new acronyms to play this game. At this point I think I'm going to declare it good enough, put back the Windows updates that were reversed by the Win reinstall (I'm seeing some strange behavior since the reinstall that I am suspecting are bugs that were fixed), and get on with my life - including the next five days traveling away from my computer completely! Sometimes you just need to get some space...

 

[linney]

I think the term alias might be a bit misleading or confusing as it has other connotations in XP. Perhaps what you are referring to is a linking between folders (in the username special folders) that when you copy a folder elsewhere and do a name Rename, the new name in the old and new destination are changed simultaneously so that the names are identical.

I wish I could tell you why or link you to some fabulous page, I just assume they are linked via the registry.

At least it is not just the Japanese version that does this.

 

[OsakaWebbie]

Yeah, that is the kind of behavior I noticed. But the part that bothers me is that the real name of the folder is Favorites, but Explorer shows it to me as a Japanese phrase that is pronounced "ki-ni-iri". If that were the real name of the folder it wouldn't bother me, but occasionally the real name has peeked through, so I know it's just smoke and mirrors. In Japanese Windows you can use Japanese characters in file/folder names, and of course the 8.3-style DOS name is something else, but in this case there are three names: "FAVORI~1", "Favorites", and "ki-ni-iri". There are several that are like this: Favorites, Start Menu, Desktop, etc. My Documents is a real fun one - in the user directory structure it shows up in English as "My Documents", and there are two links to it in other places, one called "mai dokkyumento" (the Japanese character approximation of the English) and the other "Karen no dokkyumento" (Japanese for Karen's Documents). Someone who didn't know about links might think those are three different things, since there is no indication when you look at them that two of them are just mirroring the info of the third one. Anyway, it doesn't matter - it's just another "feature" I would like to not have. Until next time...