I must be doing something wrong..... 4

[gbaughma]

I don't get it.

OK, so I don't have a BS in computer science. But I have 20+ years of computer experience; hardware, software development, networking, systems administration... and management experience.

I just dropped my resume out to a company, and got a "dear applicant" letter back. They had filled the position.

I *should* have been a shoe-in for the job.

Same thing with a hospital position that I applied for. Almost half of my career has been in the medical field (the other half in business). Didn't even get a call.

Now, considering that there are not a whole lot of IT people in this area, I can't believe that these places were so over-run with applicants (*especially* with my level of work experience) that I don't even merit a phone interview.

When I got my current job, I was flat told "You were by far the most qualified person who applied". So, the reality of it is, if I can *get* an interview, I blow their socks off. But I can't get to first base.

My cover letter (when I can send one... a lot of these applications are online now, and don't give the opportunity for a cover letter) talks about customer focus (both internal and external customers), and a desire to dedicate myself to a company that appreciates hard work and loyalty (ok, that's part of the reason that I'm looking... the company I'm working for now seems to have the opinion that everyone is replacable, and they're doing all of us a favor by "letting" us work here....)

Anyway... I don't get it. How can I get in at least for an interview? I just feel like my resume is being circular-filed before they even look at my experience.



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[wbodger]

yup, it's all about selling yourself these days. Resumes have gone thru a metamorphosis of sorts. The intro should sell you, why you are the best person for this job, brag about yourself, but don't overdo it and make sure that you specifically address at least 2-3 key points that the employer noted in their job posting.

 

[acewarlock]

I looked at one job posting today and it said min 2 years, but all the other req would take about 5 years going to school to get the Certs they want. so from what I see they just list every possible thing you could be asked to do in this job and I have never meet anyone with even 1/2 of this traing or Exp.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

I have to agree with what wahnula wrote above. Stand out.

The downside or cynical side to standing out is that if yuo're a little strange or different or spikey, then some companies don't want you.

But you know something? It's okay, because you don't want them, either.

You solve each problem a little differently.

If it's "just" a recruiter, you still snap to and be friendly and accessible and memorable. these folks have jobs going through all the time. If you know a recruiter, then get to know them BETTER. If yuo run across a lead, send it to your recruiter and ask if they know about it.

The mechanical piece there is that you become known as a person who calls in with oportunities, instead of a person who calls in with needs.

If it's an HR person, make sure there's no reason to exclude you from consideration. If they ask if you have experience with Flash, all you need to say is "I have experience with Flash." Chances are, they don't NEED to read a whole paragraph about your killer Flash application (especially considering one link will do, yes?).

If you're talking to a person or people with whom you would be working, focus on that interaction. Be a person someone would enjoy working with every day.

From the point of view of a person who has spent vast amounts of time "between jobs," the one thing I've had to learn is that it IS a crapshoot in many respects, but you can influence the dice.

Sometimes, that influence takes the strangest forms. Several jobs I've had in the past I got because I also listed other work or other experience that wasn't quite in line with the same thing, but was creative or different. A lot of that other stuf was volunteer, in fact.

It's like this: We're all identical in resumes, for example, except for the one gal who includes her experience helping organize local filmmakers (in doing so, she's managed teams as large as three hundred other people). For some folks, they ignore that. For some potential employers, that's a turn-off ("we only want buzzwords -- no creativity allowed!"), but for those employers who enjoy creativity, or who have a kid who's a struggling filmmaker, all of a sudden, this seemingly weird experience makes you stand out. "oh yeah," they say, "the filmmaker!"

I guess in short, be yourself, do a little massaging of the resume, be 100% involved in every interaction you do, and recognize that every job that opens up sees, oh, five hundred resumes. Only one hundred of them are total losers. That means 399 brilliant candidates have to be told no. Shrug, thank them for their time, and move on. re-apply at the same place in the future, if a different position opens up -- don't burn bridges.

It's really demoralizing to look for work. Be sure to schedule fun things to do after each session!

Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[Demonpiggies]

It's really demoralizing to look for work. "
I was laid off at the beginning of March and just received a job offer last week. I can tell you it SUCKS looking for a job. I have a BA in computer science and 1 1/2 years experience as a software engineer and have GREAT references. I've had an interview every week since the lay off and everyone hired "someone with a little more experience." I have been told that I was one of the best resumes/candidates for the position and that I stood out but I did not get the position. I hate looking for jobs. I believe some places do not want a candidate to stand out. One company I interviewed at I asked about the growth opportunity like 5 - 6 years down the line and was told that there is none. Also being noticed does not always bode well for other people in the group especially when they notice it during your interview. It's like you have to strike some kind of balance between being nervous and overly-confident. Small, upcoming companies would be a good opportunity if you have real experience. They tend to take just about anyone with at least a few years experience. No offense. I have worked for two now and everyone is either a genus programmer out of school or has close to ten years experience. Who knows....

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

Sure, it's possible that by being you, you alienate a potential employer. Would you necessarily want to work for that employer, though?

There's a lot to be said for speaking quietly and carrying a big stick.

Also a lot to be said for not selling your soul in exchange for a regular paycheck.

The longest I've ever been out of work was for almost exactly one year. That was pretty hard, and this was with a decade of relevant experience, a fantastic portfolio of samples, and several very good references.

You just have to be philosophical about it.

It's not that much unlike dating -- keep looking until you find someone compatible with you -- don't pretend to be someone you aren't.

Probably more dangerous than dating, in some respects...

Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[Glenn9999]

Probably more dangerous than dating, in some respects...

Definitely is. And infinitely more consequences. Life really doesn't change much if members of the opposite sex say no to a date. But life changes drastically if enough employers say no to you to work.

It's much more dangerous indeed to be deprived of money in this world than being deprived of time to impress the opposite sex. And in the end that makes even the business of employment to be very dangerous and a very nasty prison indeed. We search for work not because we are free, but because we are not free.

----------
Those who work hard are rewarded with more work and remembered come time to downsize. Those who hardly work are given a paycheck and ignored completely.

 

[EdwardMartinIII]

We search for work not because we are free, but because we are not free."

Well, that and we need Pop-Tarts.

Edward

"Cut a hole in the door. Hang a flap. Criminy, why didn't I think of this earlier?!" -- inventor of the cat door

 

[kmcferrin]

I find it interesting that so many people have had such negative experiences with HR making the final decision in hiring. In just about every case I can think of, it's the department manager who chooses who he wants. Usually HR is there to just screen out the "not a chance in hell" types. Sometimes I've seen them fight a candidate being hired because they want too much salary (happened to me once), but usually they leave that up to the manager as long as it's within the right scale.

At any rate, the best way to sell yourself is NOT to list 27 years of experience and every little thing that you did on your resume. I've only been in IT professionally for 10 years, but I have a 7-page resume. There's no way I'd submit that to a prospective employer. But when I apply for a position I trim out all of the material that's not relevant. I still list all of my previous employers, but if there is little relevant info then they only get a couple of lines, whereas the more relevant positions get many bullet points.

I usually trim it down to two pages, which includes an introduction/cover letter with a list of skills and certifications, then a separate page for experience. I know that conventional knowledge has been to keep a resume to one page, but that can be hard to do these days. It used to be that you worked for a total of 2-4 companies in your lifetime, these days most people are changing jobs every 3-5 years (or even more often).

At any rate, the key is to cut down on the signal to noise ratio. If it's not directly relevant, the employer probably doesn't care. If by eliminating your non-relevant experience it makes your resume look like EXACTLY the guy they're looking for, then you'll have a much easier time getting the interview. After all, you want to look like you have in-depth experience in the areas that they're looking for, not look like the "jack of all trades and master of none."

When I see something that says "technician, troubleshooter, trainer, or system administrator" I have serious reservations. Those are four very different jobs, and that makes me anticipate someone who either isn't focused or who is desperate for anything they can get. Desperate people are usually desperate because nobody will hire them. Does that mean that there's something wrong with this candidate? Should I be worried?

One last point, I often do technical interviews for my employer, and I find that usually the longer or more built up the resume, the weaker the candidate. That's not always the case, but there is a strong correlation. That goes doubly for people who put certification/product logos on their resume. It's almost as if they think that having the logo (or the right to use the logo) somehow covers up for lack of experience. I've only interviewed a handful of candidates who have used logos on their resume, but in every case they were so bad that we wouldn't hire them.

And yes, I do see the irony in having my certs listed here too.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCTS:Active Directory
MCTS:Network Infrastructure
MCTS:Applications Infrastructure

 

[gbaughma]

Interestingly enough, I had a phone interview recently.

A pretty big company called me; there were 4 people in on the interview; 3 locally and one from Cleveland.

They were obviously the "technical end", because they wanted technical details of what I'm doing right now. They also asked why, after 10 years, I'm wishing to move on.

I was honest with them, and made sure that I kept my answers at the same technical level as the questions that they were asking. They were especially interested in hearing the story of how, working with the engineers, I took a manufacturing company from 3% to 100% QA on their production line. Then they asked specific technical questions about that; how did I collect the data, what safety features did I include, and so forth.

They seemed very impressed, and the guy at Cleveland said to one of the other guys "Give me a call as soon as we're done here...." so, it sounded promising.

So, of course, I'm chomping at the bit, because I know this particular company isn't real fast to move on hires, and I'm wondering how long I should wait to (or even if I should) "follow up" by giving them a call.

But, at least I got a nibble. First one I've had in a while.



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[sha76]

Sounds promising, good luck!

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[SF0751]

Greg - the phone interview sounds like it went well, keep us posted on the outcome!

Susan
"When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers." - Oscar Wilde, An Ideal husband, 1893

 

[lespaul]

glad to hear that you've got an opportunity! make the most of it!

Leslie

 

[SantaMufasa]

If all goes well, then the next round is on Greg.

[tt]
,----------- Root Beer
| ,--------- Ginger Ale
| | ,---- Martinelli's Sparkling Cider
| | | ,-- Vanilla Caffeine-free Diet Coke
V V V V [/tt]



Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[shoalcreek]

If you have 20 years of experience, you are most likely over 40. You are a victim of age discrimination--plain and simple.

 

[kmcferrin]

Age discrimination can be very difficult to prove. It usually involves a documented history of events from a single employer involving multiple individuals that appear to be discriminatory. It is not easy to prove. To think that someone with only a tiny slice of information about a single candidate and multiple employers who are very unlikely to be acting in collusion can accurately determine whether age discrimination is happening is, frankly, ridiculous. To claim that just because someone is over the age of 40 and having trouble finding work that it must be a cut and dried case of age discrimination is equally laughable.

I find it much more likely that the OP just needs to polish up his resume a bit and work on more directly targeting the positions that he is interested in, that way he can get to the interview and blow their socks off.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCSE:Security 2003
MCTS:Active Directory
MCTS:Network Infrastructure
MCTS:Applications Infrastructure