I must be doing something wrong..... 4

[gbaughma]

I don't get it.

OK, so I don't have a BS in computer science. But I have 20+ years of computer experience; hardware, software development, networking, systems administration... and management experience.

I just dropped my resume out to a company, and got a "dear applicant" letter back. They had filled the position.

I *should* have been a shoe-in for the job.

Same thing with a hospital position that I applied for. Almost half of my career has been in the medical field (the other half in business). Didn't even get a call.

Now, considering that there are not a whole lot of IT people in this area, I can't believe that these places were so over-run with applicants (*especially* with my level of work experience) that I don't even merit a phone interview.

When I got my current job, I was flat told "You were by far the most qualified person who applied". So, the reality of it is, if I can *get* an interview, I blow their socks off. But I can't get to first base.

My cover letter (when I can send one... a lot of these applications are online now, and don't give the opportunity for a cover letter) talks about customer focus (both internal and external customers), and a desire to dedicate myself to a company that appreciates hard work and loyalty (ok, that's part of the reason that I'm looking... the company I'm working for now seems to have the opinion that everyone is replacable, and they're doing all of us a favor by "letting" us work here....)

Anyway... I don't get it. How can I get in at least for an interview? I just feel like my resume is being circular-filed before they even look at my experience.



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[aarenot]

Play golf? Find out where their IT guys do, and wait for one to be late, and they need a 4th. I have a friend who got his job by finding out the usual golf time for a group from IT. He went for a few weeks, and struck up convo in the bar after they got around, eventualy he was their 4th when they needed one, and then he got asked. Hey, you know such, and such, you looking for a move, we could use a guy with that knowledge? One interview with one of the 4, and he had the job.

 

[spamly]

Do you create a custom cover letter and resume for every job for which you apply? I've heard that helps. You don't have to lie, you just showcase your most relevant experience for the specific position.

 

[SantaMufasa]

I've heard they DO have non-alcoholic beverages in bars...

Lelsie

I'm not as think as you drunk I am, right, Les?

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[lespaul]

I noticed that yesterday and decided I'd wait to see how long it took for someone to say something!



Les
(notice I decided to not include the optional letters this time!)

 

[SantaMufasa]

BTW, Les, completely off into the weeds here, but is your surname Paul? I have a ton of relatives/ancestors that are surnamed Paul, including Captain John Paul Jones, the naval hero from the Revolutionary War. (He adopted "Jones" to avoid prosecution for the death of a crewman earlier in his career.)

Let me know if I should break out my genealogy records.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[lespaul]

no, it's my husband's first name; I use it because I like the "Les Paul"/guitar questions that I get to answer! Plus I find that it makes posters assume I'm male and for some reason that makes my replies more "believable" or "authentic". While it's changing, there are still men people who don't think that women know what we're doing, especially in technology.

Les

 

[JCreamerII]

lespaul,

I knew you were female, your thoughts always seen to be sensitive and cogent. That's a rare combo these days. Makes no difference to me, but I can see why you would think that way. Also I always like the reference to the original LP.

Jim C.

 

[stackdump]

I had a similar experience. I found that the cause was because I put too much onto my resume. I put all my experience, buzz words, software, O/S experience and my certifications complete with their official symbols etc.

What the interviewers (or selection person) saw was somebody that looked *really* good. The problem with that was it provoked reactions like;
(a) He will be really expensive
(b) He won't be satisfied working here
(c) His skills are over the top for what we want
(d) This guy frightens me!, look at all this stuff
(e) Why is someone like him, applying for a job here?

I dumbed my resume right down, leaving a huge amount of detail out, targeting only what was relevant and also inferring I wanted to learn more about x, y, z. Bingo!

I guess I had made my resume look like what the company wanted/expected, rather than an excuse to show off all my accomplishments/skills. I took all my certificates with me to the interviews, just in case they described some skill they needed, that I had not documented. It was also amazing how much value they placed on being able to build web pages and web sites, so having a couple of

http://www sites

they could look at was incredibly useful.

 

[wahnula]

Greg,

As someone on the other end (the hiring end) I can offer you this nugget: Do whatever it takes to separate yourself from the pack. Last job posting we made (for QuickBooks operator) all the resumes said the same thing: "...looking to utilize my skills in a positive environment good team player grow with the business blah blah blah. Your eyes glaze over after the first few.

I received an email saying "you can really mess up QuickBooks if you don't know what you're doing"...she had a very thin resume but something about that statement grabbed me and I recommended her for an interview. She turned out to be 57, but very meticulous in nature and developed into an excellent hire and valuable employee.

She has streamlined our business ($3M+ design/build construction co.) and implemented new procedures, really works hard and plans to work for us as long as we'll have her.

I'm saying to find something unique, succinct and memorable to use as the first line or two in your resume. It will mean much, much more than a laundry list of your achievements or a boilerplate "mission statement". As someone who was responsible for weeding out resumes to present to the boss, that line still sticks with me five years after reading it...now that's memorable, and exactly what you should be after. Best of luck.



Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[acewarlock]

I just applied for a job and on the Application they asked why I want to work at this company. The answer I gave was (because I want a job), I know that's not the answer they where looking for as they want a BS answer. If I need to lie to get a job at a company by answering those stupid questions, I guess I'll never get one. I like the kind of work I do and I do the best I can and I don't care who or what the company does. it seems like the lying starts with the Resume and just continues up to the top, what ever happened to integrity at work? How do they expect people to be honest any more. Enron is a prime example.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[bednarjm]

acewarlock

Of course you want a job. That is a given. Why you want the job with that particular company is what they were looking for. This is **not** a BS answer but instead goes to your motivation. They can hire many people with the same skills as you've got (maybe even better). Instead you need to list what sets you apart and how this can help them in doing their business.


aarenot mentioned "ask the headhunter" (

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/)

This is an excellent site that will give a different perspective on how to job hunt (or career manage).

 

[acewarlock]

If you can be taught how to answer questions at an interview, then it's all BS, it's not honest and your just saying what they want to hear. I have read Resume's from job Applicants and I sometimes want to just puke reading the BS in the Cover Letter. I love doing what I do and telling a company that there wonderful and we can do great thing together may fool the HR person, but once your face to face with the guy your going to work for, you better know what the job is about and that you can do it.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[sha76]

acewarlock, its not about learning set answers to questions to guarantee you get the job, there are no such standard answers. What you can learn is how to present yourself in a better light. Just as bednarjm said, its about setting yourself apart.

"Your rock is eroding wrong." -Dogbert

 

[bednarjm]

once your face to face with the guy your going to work for, you better know what the job is about and that you can do it.

I would add - how are you going to make his/her job easier. This is what get's you the job. It's NOT the **bs** answers that HR sometimes wants. It's getting to the actual hiring manager and demonstrating how you can actually do the work.

 

[gbaughma]

<sigh>

Look what (wonderful) thing happened to the guy who developed the KnoppMyth distribution...

Normally, "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas". But, I've been told it is ok to share this information. Last week, I was in Las Vegas. While at the bar in the Mirage, my friend and I were talking. He was asking how the my project was going and I was filling him in... Unbeknownst to either of us, our conversation was being listened to by the fellow next to us.

After a few minutes, the fellow sitting next to us introduced himself as Jeff Chaucer, Senior Manager of Windows Media Center Edition.

Jeff, goes on to tell us that he overheard what we were talking about and he is interested in learning more about KnoppMyth (I may not care for Microsoft, but my parents taught me not to be rude.). So, I tell him how I started the project, etc. "Interesting" he says.

Jeff then goes on to tell me that Microsoft is looking to make changes to MCE and if I'd be interested in joining the team. I tell him that I'm happy with my current employer and that if I were to be a Microsoft employee that I imagine my working on KnoppMyth would be frowned upon. He says "No, not at all. Microsoft is looking to change it's image and there would be no issues with me continuing to work on an Open Source project. The only sipulation is that it doesn't interfare with an employee's day to day duties."

Interesting I thought, but I declined. Jeff insisted I think about it and to contact him in a few days. We exchanged information and he paid our tab.

I got a call from Jeff yesterday and he has sweetened the deal. Not only will Microsoft double my income, I can work on KnoppMyth 30% of my time. In addition, I'll have full access to their hardware labs to test KnoppMyth.

So, starting April 21st, I'll be a full time Microsoft employee.

I'm happy for him... that's cool... no doubt...

I guess I'm just feeling slightly sorry for myself that nothing like that ever happens to me. lol



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[Glenn9999]

I love doing what I do and telling a company that there wonderful and we can do great thing together may fool the HR person, but once your face to face with the guy your going to work for, you better know what the job is about and that you can do it.

Assuming you get to be face to face with the guy you would work for - in 99% of the cases I've encountered, HR is the sole decision maker on the hiring decision.

 

[fredericofonseca]

Gleen is right.


I am a contractor, and have been told by a friend that works on the HR department of a big bank, that I would never be hired by them based on the HR "rules". Main reason given was that I was too prone to introduce "changes" to the existing processes, and that was not seen with good eyes.

Another company (international consulting one) I applied for, when contracting was way dead, told me I wasn't "client facing". This was the HR also. Both the senior partner that interviewed me, and the technical argued about it, but HR had last word.

Regards

Frederico Fonseca
SysSoft Integrated Ltd

http://www.syssoft-int.com

FAQ219-2884
FAQ181-2886

 

[Glenn9999]

Main reason given was that I was too prone to introduce "changes" to the existing processes, and that was not seen with good eyes.

Indeed. Much of the hiring decision involves perpetuating the status quo - creating dead men walking, in other words. They don't seek "new blood", "change", "new ideas", or however you want to put it - it shows up the bosses (welcome to Dilbert hell). It's basically saying "the process you put in isn't good enough". It's a good as a gauntlet to the face. The boss isn't going to hire someone that will present a threat to him or anything he has done.

I know I've seen that myself - I'm a whole lot more interested in design process than I am coding, and have encountered similar "problems" in my travels. I've found, truthfully, that coding skills, or even design skills are completely irrelevant. What is relevant is towing the line and doing just good enough that the boss is not shown up by your incompetence (as opposed to theirs). What acewarlock wrote is true to that point: "you better know what the job is about and that you can do it." - the job is managing the pointy-haired bosses and putting up with their BS, fighting political battles, and tolerating all the nonsense.

Truthfully, especially what I've heard about Microsoft and their management processes dragging them into oblivion, KnoppMyth guy would be happier if he didn't take the job.

 

[acewarlock]

I'm going to continue to tell them I want a job even if I don't get, because I wouldn't want to work for a company that is run by HR again. The last company I worked for HR ran the company into the ground and it was sold. My Resume tell my story and if that doesn't get me the job, then so be it. My integerity it worth more to me than that.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[gbaughma]

It's kind of funny... because many of the interviews that I've been on in the past have been the boss saying "Boy, we got problems... what would you do to improve [whatever]"

I like to think of myself as an "Idea person".

Yes, sometimes that gets me called the "Loose cannon" or the "wildcard", but it also means that I get things done. I look at the entire process, not just the technical aspect of it, and come up with a solution (sometimes not a technology solution, either).



Just my 2¢
-Cole's Law: Shredded cabbage

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com