Help me name these concepts 1

[ESquared]

I have specialized meanings for the words hurt and harm that I use in philosophical discussions. (I only use these meanings with others after carefully noting that I am altering their ordinary, everyday meaning.)

In these special senses:
harm is any damage that permanently and materially detracts from the function, ability, survival, or quality of a person.
hurt is any damage that is either not permanent or does not materially detract.

These are largely subjective. They have been very useful concepts to me when contemplating troubles in my past. Was I really harmed, or did it just hurt? And if I feel harmed now, what can I do or how can I adjust my thinking to convert that experience to hurt, and no harm? Perhaps even to see actual benefit from it.

Here's an example. Let's say I go hiking and fall into a ditch and break my leg and nearly die of dehydration before I am rescued three days later. This sounds like harm.

But let's say that in the process I discovered gold in the ditch and later secured millions of dollars worth of gold. Let's also say that on the rescue team was a woman who eventually became my wife—someone I have no reason to expect I would ever have met in any other way (perhaps I was far from my home). Let's say furthermore that the recovery time I was forced to take made me stop and evaluate my life and make some desperately needed and very beneficial spiritual changes. I also recovered full use of my leg.

So from this new perspective, that experience was actually beneficial, even though the broken leg and dying of thirst part was quite painful and unpleasant. Looking back, I might be really glad that it happened, because of all the things that I gained from it.

What I would like ideas on are a pair of positive words that parallel these special meanings of hurt and harm:

• A name for a kind of good that is pleasant to experience but carries no long-term or lasting benefit
• A name for a kind of good that may be unpleasant to experience but is ultimately a real prospering. Remember that I'm talking about grand-scale stuff here. Getting millions of dollars is actually a bad example from my philosophical perspective because it could easily be harm as well as benefit. I'm talking about the real goods--some kind of reward to the soul.

I've thought of several pairs of words but none has really struck me so far as working well.

(pain, damage)-> hurt, harm
-----------
(pleasure, benefit)-> ?
nice/pleasant/pleasurable, good
enjoyable, beneficial
good, prospering

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[Trevoke]

I tend to only use the words karma and dharma.. ;-)

Tao Te Ching Discussions : Chapter 9 (includes links to previous chapters)
What is the nature of conflict?

 

[IknowMe]

A name for a kind of good that is pleasant to experience but carries no long-term or lasting benefit
cheap thrill
A name for a kind of good that may be unpleasant to experience but is ultimately a real prospering.
tough love

(pain, damage)-> hurt, harm
(pleasure, benefit) -> please, advance

I know of no single words that represent the ideas your trying to convey. Since you prefer making your own specialized meanings for words, I suggest you just make up new words entirerly.

Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[ESquared]

Do you really think that I've stretched hurt and harm so far beyond their common everyday meanings?

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Do you really think that I've stretched hurt and harm so far beyond their common everyday meanings?

I think so, and even within a closed circle, I'm still not comfortable with such redefinitions. Clarifications are one thing, but I think redefinitions should probably be avoided.

Hurt refers to pain, and harm refers to damage. You can be hurt without being harmed, and you can be harmed without being hurt. I fully understand trying to differentiate between permanent harm and temporary harm, but I don't think redefining hurt is the best option. One possible option is to use 'injury' for temporary damage and 'disability' for permanent damage.

I'm curious why you feel 'pleasure' and 'benefit' aren't good fits?

For example, getting a vaccination can hurt, but be beneficial. Lying the beach getting a suntan (not burned, just a good tan) can be pleasurable, yet may also be harmful.

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[ESquared]

I'm open to other terms besides hurt and harm, that are closer to the meanings I am thinking of. Could I get more suggestions?

Injury and disability are good noun words for the kind of damage itself, but what would good verbs be? Injure/disable?

Injure works. Injuries can be healed. But disable isn't quite right. Disable is good in some ways, but to me it connotes physical ability where I am referring to something at a more emotional level. Emotionally disabled sounds to me like being poor at relating to people.

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[CajunCenturion]

You could used scarred.

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[ESquared]

Hmmm... scarred is interesting. I've thought about it before but I've tended to see it as cosmetic and actually a good example of the kind of hurt/temporary damage that may not affect long-term ability. I actually have a five-inch scar on my left thigh, but it doesn't affect my ability to run or anything. If that scar was a festering wound, now, that hadn't healed and couldn't be expected to heal, it would be permanent damage.

Of course there are situations where a scar does impair proper function.

Thanks for the ideas... please keep them coming. I'm all for using terms that are more appropriate and meaningful to others, instead of having my own definitions.

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think you're now getting into cause and effect issues (a scar is the result of an injury, and whereas the injury may heal, the scar is permament). I also think you're backtracking somewhat.

Two posts ago you said,
==> But disable isn't quite right. Disable is good in some ways, but to me it connotes physical ability where I am referring to something at a more emotional level.
Sounds like emotional scarring to me, i.e. the emotional scars resulting from some trauma, but then you said,
==> [scarring is]actually a good example of the kind of hurt/temporary damage that may not affect long-term ability.
Sounds like you're back to disability.

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[ESquared]

True, "emotional scarring" has a distinct meaning from physical scarring, suggesting more than just cosmetic or slight stretching or flexibility problems. So emotional scarring is closer, but still not there.

Perhaps I didn't describe it well. I'm looking for a more ultimate term. Maybe it would help to mention that (using the special meanings) personally I consider all trauma in life to be only hurt and that the only true harm is to leave life without knowing God. Not trying to start a religious discussion, but it may help with the concepts. Similarly, there are many things that appear good and pleasant and nice which ultimately have no real significance or value.

Another axis to look at this instead of harm is loss. Loss helps drive at what I'm trying to capture: I may have broken my leg, I might even have lost my leg, but in the process I ultimately haven't lost anything of true or lasting value.

I'm finding it hard to describe these concepts... that's why I need help with the terms!

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> I'm finding it hard to describe these concepts.
I can understand that because it seems that your looking to define a term which refers to a human condition, but one that doesn't apply as long as you're alive.

Semantically, your definition of harm is self-contradictory. As you have it defined, 'harm' cannot happen until the point of death, because anyone can come to know God at any point prior to death; therefore, harm cannot occur until after, or at least simultaneously with the moment of death. In other words, you're trying to define this concept of harm that cannot apply to living humans. Which leaves hurt to mean anything that involves pain and/or damage, temporary or permanent, physical or emotional, to a living human. Personally, I find far too nebulous to be meaningful term in a philosophical discussion.

It's not for this forum, just something that you might want to reflect on, but that definition of harm raises a very significant theological question. How, or why, does the death of the physical human body result in harm -- harm as you have defined it -- to the eternal soul?


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[ESquared]

therefore, harm cannot occur until after, or at least simultaneously with the moment of death.

This is actually very useful for me. Consider the saying, "they can kill the body, but they can't touch the soul."

This is the essence of understanding the true nature of this kind of harm. One can potentially harm people by behaving in any way that makes them more likely to be ultimately harmed. If we misrepresent God or live as anything less than excellently, we risk, at best, failing to help others avoid the only real harm there is.

That saying above is a little remote and dry to me, until I start thinking about hurt vs. harm in everyday events and things from the past. I use it as a tool to self-actualize, to place things in perspective, and to start "gold mining" events I considered as bad to convert them to--if not good in themselves--at least not harmful to me.

I also think the concepts are potentially useful to anyone (although perhaps not useful to you); all need not define ultimate harm the way that I have. It can be freeing for someone to realize "it may have hurt and I may have scars, but did I permanently lose anything significant? No!" What is truly significant and what is truly loss are indeed highly subjective to each individual!

It is in many ways a simple choice. In essence my hurt/harm concepts are a restatement of that proverb, "life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it."

Because of the way I view ultimate harm, it is for me entirely out of the reach of this universe. There is power in this.

As for the last question, I agree that it is not for this forum. I am content with my answers to it.

So far I like "ultimate gain or loss" for the strong expressions of benefit/harm. I am still looking for more words, especially for the positive side.

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[CajunCenturion]

The concepts are entirely subjective, but as far as this forum is concerned, the concepts themselves are completely irrelavent. What does matter for this forum is whether or not the language and terms we use to describe those concepts are semantically accurate, at least without arbitrary and subjective re-definition of terms.

I think MrMilson summed it up rather nicely in his earlier post.

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[r937]

soul? there is no such thing

when you're dead, you're dead

that's the ultimate harm

anything that doesn't ultimately harm me, doesn't hurt me either (apologies to Nietzsche)



r937.com | rudy.ca

 

[ESquared]

CC,

Interesting attitude you've got there.

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[TheRambler]

A name for a kind of good that is pleasant to experience but carries no long-term or lasting benefit

Maybe ephemerhedon? From the Greek words ephemer and hedon.

Hmmm, maybe not, cheap thrill sounds better.

 

[ESquared]

I like it, TheRambler. Thrill vs. gain. I will keep thinking about it.

[COLOR=black #d0d0d0]My alarm clock causes time travel. When I hit snooze, no apparent time passes before the alarm sounds again, but the universe has in fact moved forward through time by ten minutes![/color]

 

[drlex]

I think TheRambler has the right approach - if the word doesn't exist, make one up from combining two or more existing appropriate words. English-speakers would tend to use either Latin or Greek; German-speakers German (I'm not enough of an ethnologist to take this any further!).

soi la, soi carré

 

[LNBruno]

A name for a kind of good that is pleasant to experience but carries no long-term or lasting benefit

I remember someone referring to this as a "hollow success" or a "shallow victory" at some point...maybe "hollow victory?"

More coffee? Excellent suggestion!

< M!ke >
Your right to an opinion does not obligate me to take you seriously.
- Winston Churchill