Hardware to old to upgrade / install

[Janatwork]

Hi,
Bit of help / advise required please. I have a rather old PC which plods along quite happily, running Win98SE, but I want to go to Broadband and thought it best to upgrade to Windows XP.
However when I tested to see if the PC would upgrade to XP, I got the message, hardware to old to upgrade. I understand that whether I upgrade or install I will still have the problem. Other than buying a new PC does anyone know a way round this please...........
My PC spec is 8gb hard drive, 60mb total memory, 640k conventional and the bios date is 1999.
Thanks

 

[Frank4d]

You would definitely need more RAM for XP to run at all. What CPU, motherboard model, video card, and sound card?

 

[garebo]

Right off the top, it sounds like you have an old AT machine.
Depending on your answer to the questions put forth by Frank4d, you could strip out all the pci cards that arent needed for the machine to run and try again.
However, for sure, you would probably need more ram, I dont know the minimum, but i wouldnt be surprised it its 128 mb.

For that old machine i wouldnt bother buying more ram or anything else for it, its too old and you will find yourself needing or wanting more and more parts, not worth it.
You can go to broadband with win98, near as easy as xp.


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[edfair]

I think it is more likely a 486. But sheer speculation.

How about downloading one of these: Belard Advisor, Sysoft Sandra, or Mitchell (renamed AIDA) and run it to see what you have?

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[wolluf]

Janatwork - if you want a workable machine running XP, you need to buy a new one.

If you're happy with your machine, just heed garebo's advice and connect your broadband to it as it is (make sure you have a firewall and anti-virus installed if you don't have already).

 

[garebo]

Thats the prob, he has an old AT machine, maybe even a 486, 386, or the beginning of pentium, 133, 166.
Even if it would work, if it meant having to buy old 72 pin ram its not worth it. And to have to buy more parts for a machine that old, its not worth it either.
If it works in win98, be thankful, and just go to broadband with what you have working.
Maybe you can scrounge up some more ram or a larger hard drive. Or maybe even a bios upgrade.
First you would have to give us more info, what type cpu you have, what type ram, the markings on the motherboard (name and model of motherboard), type of power supply connector - is it 2 smaller connectors or one large 20 pin connector to the motherboard. That sort of info.
If its in the pentium range then maybe some more ram would be in order, still best to stick with win98se anyway, i believe.




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[Janatwork]

Thanks guys for your quick replies, much appreciated.
I was thinking of keeping you in suspense Doc, but that's not nice, so as long as you promise not to laugh, here are my PC's vital stats as per Belard Report........

Motherboard, SiS530, Bus CLock 100mhz
Memory 60mb, slot 0 32mb. slot 1 32mb (my reckoning that's 64mb) but it's what it says.
8gig hard drive,
Pentium processor, 450mhz
Not sure on the video and sound card though, they're not obvious on the report (sorry)

 

[Frank4d]

A Pentium 450Mhz will run XP with no problem... I had two K2/400s running XP Home and connected via broadband. Video card is still in question though.

Jan - Send your snail-mail address to my email and I'll mail you a 256MB PC100 DIMM- frankford at adelphia dot net (fix the no-spam address).

 

[garebo]

And if you do have any more probs, it will likely be your vid card, win xp is very fussy about vid cards, i bet you will need a newer card than what you have.
Is it built-in video? Check to see if it can be disabled and then borrow another vid card from someone, agp or pci, whatever you can use on that mobo.
What are markings on the mobo to tell us what make. sis530 is only the chipset. Off top of my head it could be a pc chips, ECS mobo with that chipset.
Must be sdram you have and not 72 pin ram?
You should try and get bios update if possible but need mobo info.
Also, on boot, use pause key to stop the screen and get the bios string, its a combo of numbers and letters with the date. That can usually tell us which mobo you have as well.
Maybe you have a K6-2-450, maybe a super socket 7 mobo? They are great! Look on the white part where the cpu hs\fan goes and see what it reads there.


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[paparazi]

Hey guys!! some of your historical guesstimates are way out! first P60 pentiums were introduced in 1993, 6 years before Janatwork's PC

The swap over from AT to ATX was generally around the introduction of the first PII MMX's 233mhz onwards introduced in 1997, so two years on, janatwork's PC is much more likely ATX than AT.

Janatwork may have anything upto a very capable PIII 500 but likely 350mhz plus by 1999.

This wouldn't have any problems running a cable modem on 98SE and with another 128mb of memory May just about get by on XP although I personally wouldn't recommend it.

See this more accurate listing:


The first Pentium chip was introduced in 1993 as the successor to the 486; thus the Pentium began as the fifth generation of the Intel x86 architecture (see x86). Following is a brief summary of all Pentium families.


Pentium 4 - Introduced in 2000 (1.4-3.4GHz)

Latest Pentium architecture started out with a 400MHz system bus and 256KB L2 cache (later increased to 800MHz and 2MB). The first models contained 42 million transistors, used the 0.18 micron process and came in 423-pin and 478-pin PGA packages. Intel's first Pentium 4 chipset was the 850 and supported only Rambus memory (RDRAM), but subsequent chipsets switched to DDR SDRAM. See NetBurst.


Celeron - Introduced in 1998 (266MHz-2.8GHz)

Less expensive Pentium chips due to smaller L2 caches. First Celerons had no L2 cache, but 128KB on-die cache was added in 1999. Celerons started out with 66 and 100MHz system buses that migrated to 400MHz.


Pentium III - 1999-2001 (500MHz-1.13GHz)

The Pentium III added 70 additional instructions to the Pentium II. The Pentium III used a 100 or 133MHz system bus and either a 512KB L2 cache or a 256KB L2 Advanced Transfer Cache. Depending on the model, it contained from 9.5 to 28 million transistors, used the 0.25 or 0.18 micron process and came in SECC and SECC2 packages. Mobile units came in BGA and micro-PGA (µPGA) packages.


Pentium III Xeon - 1999-2001 (500MHz-933MHz)

Typically used in 2-way to 8-way servers, Xeon specs were like Pentium III with L2 cache up to 2MB. The Xeon used the SECC2 and SC330 chip packages.


Pentium II - 1997-1999 (233MHz-450MHz)

Added MMX multimedia instructions to Pentium Pro and introduced the Single Edge Connector Cartridge (SECC) for Slot 1. The Pentium II used a 66 or 100MHz system bus. Desktop models had 7.5 million transistors, 512KB L2 cache and were housed in SECC packages. Mobile models had 27.4 million transistors, 256KB L2 cache and were housed in either BGA or Mobile Mini-Cartridge (MMC) packages.


Pentium II Xeon - 1998-1999 (400MHz-450MHz)

Typically used in high-end and 2-way and 4-way servers, Xeon specs were like Pentium II with L2 cache from 512KB to 2MB and 100MHz system bus.


Pentium Pro - 1995-1997 (150MHz-200MHz)

Typically used in high-end desktops and servers, the Pentium Pro increased memory from 4GB to 64GB. The Pentium Pro had L2 cache from 512KB to 1MB, used a 60 or 66MHz system bus, contained from 5.5 to 62 million transistors. It was made with 0.35 process and housed in a dual cavity PGA package. When introduced, it was touted as being superior to the Pentium for 32-bit applications.


Pentium MMX - 1997-1999 (233MHz-300MHz)

Added MMX multimedia instructions to Pentium CPU and increased transistors to 4.5 million. Desktop units used PGA package and 0.35 process while mobile units used TCP and 0.25 process.


Pentium - 1993-1996 (60MHz-200MHz)

First Pentium CPU models. The Pentium had an L2 cache from 256KB to 1MB, used a 50, 60 or 66MHz system bus and contained from 3.1 to 3.3 million transistors built on 0.6 to 0.35 process. Chips were housed in PGA packages.




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[wolluf]

Jan - suspect you may have onboard video, using 4MB of system RAM (which would explain the 60MB RAM). You'd also need to check how many memory slots you have and what the maximum each can take is (have seen machines of that age with just 2 slots, max 32MB each). If you can put at least 256MB Ram in machine - and perhaps a new video card, you may be in business - though your hard drive is going to cause problems - if you get broadband connection 8GB will fill up very quickly (remember XP takes up c. 1.5GB) - and if you think of getting another drive, bios likely has 32GB limit (unless there's an upgrade available - or you add a PCI controller - as smallest new drives commonly available now are 40GB).

 

[garebo]

thanks for the list Paparrazi

 

[edfair]

With PCI VGA cards as cheap as they are, that would make a good investment no matter the outcome of the 98/XP debate.
98 would love to have more memory to work on video display.

Machine should have PCI available, even though some manufacturers were cutting back even then.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[Janatwork]

Hi again guys,
Looks like i'll have to get my screw driver out then. Women and screw drivers don't go together so I'm told, but for you, I will dismantle the tower and have a look at the mobo.

Hope you'll all be online when I have bits left over that won't got back!!!lol and no garebo, don't mind your post at all!
I just appreciate your help.

 

[garebo]

We will all help you. This is by far and above the best place on the net for tech help!!!!
So dont worry.

And girls CAN use a screwdriver!


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[Janatwork]

Hi again,

Not sure if this is what you're after, but I paused the boot up and got Award modular Bios V4.51PG 08/12/1999
AMD-K6(tm)-2/450
Now I have the tower in bits on the floor (lol)the mobo is in full view, so hopefully you can make something out of this lot!
5SSVO-D150A TS895B-2 v2.0 08/12/1999 3597, this info is on sticker which covers something else, but I can't see any sort of name on the mobo and I can't get the sticker off.
EliteMT LP61G6464AF-5 9922S N4H01NB
The Audio and Video are part of the mobo too. The only 'extra' connected is a modem

Tower back in one piece and no bits left over

 

[garebo]

First you have to decide if you want to try installing win xp on this machine, otherwise you can leave it be with win98 on it.
If you wanna go with win xp, You have a lot of work to do anyway, so can i suggest that you take the mobo out of the case and put it out on a table, same with the power supply.
Take all pci and isa cards out of their slots for now and leave them aside til we get this going.
And put some paper or some foam under the mobo and hook the power supply to the mobo, hook up monitor, keyboard and mouse, and let us know when you are that far.

You should have an antistatic wrist strap on but if not, then just do this. Every time you want to touch something, grab hold of the case to dissipate any static electricity on you. Then take hold of the parts you want.
If you are in a place with lots of static we should wait til you get a strap, if no carpets and not too dry, then you are likely ok as-is.
In the meantime, we will check out the numbers you supplied.
you have a very common Award bios 4.51, thats good as well all know that one.
And you have an amd k6 2 - 450, about what some thought.


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[Aussie2]

no bits left over I am impressed {dosent work like that for me}

 

[mainegeek]

Janatwork,
I wouldn't bother with XP. Pull the (2) 32meg sticks of ram and upgrade with (2) 128 meg sticks. Install a PCI or USB Network Adapter for your Broadband connection.

Also, un-install programs that you no longer use and keep your startup programs to a minimum. Run disk cleanup,
scandisk,defrag and check internet options,settings for damaged or unknown objects and remove them. Install programs
such as "Ad-aware" and "Spybot Search and Destroy" to remove Pop-up and Spyware. Run Windows Update to download and install any critical updates available.

 

[paparazi]

I am a bit confused here!

The lady wants to run a cable modem and this thread has led to the suggestion that she takes her motherboard and power supply out the case to flatbed test? WHY? even if she wanted to pinpoint the offending un-compliant XP component she wouldn't need to remove the mainboard and PSU.

We have established that she has an AMD K62 450 CPU on a super socket 7 motherboard.

We have also agreed that she doesn't need swap to XP

We have also agreed that she could do with a bit more ram

XP indicates that 1 or more periferals may not work with XP, so stick with W98SE, see if you can pick up another 64mb stick PC100 SDram (probably will have to be second hand) 128mb is a generous amount of ram for 98.

Follow maingeeks advice to clean and speed up things a little.

Job done!

So as we all agree, a W98SE machine with a K62 450 CPU and 128mb of ram will run a cable modem just fine.

Martin


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