Grammar and Punctuation Civil Disobedience 2

[KornGeek]

(Forgive my rambling. It's getting late, but I thought this might be fun.)

Are there any grammar or punctuation (or even spelling) rules that you know, but choose not to follow?

For me, a big one is the rule regarding punctuation and quotation marks at the end of a sentence. The rule states that the punctuation should go inside the quotation marks, but I usually put it outside.

The way I decide where the punctuation goes has to do with whether it was part of what I was quoting or not. For instance I will punctuate as follows:

She told me to "Use punctuation the right way."
and
She told me to use punctuation "the right way".

In the first instance, I'm quoting a sentence, so I include the punctuation. In the second instance, I'm quoting a fragment, so I put the punctuation outside the quotes.

Even though I've always been taught that the punctuation should go inside the quotes, I feel that it makes your intentions more clear doing it my way.

What rules do you deliberately disobey?

 

[Stella740pl]

984 is a datum.

Possibly. But are you sure that a whole 984 is a datum, and not a single digit? Say, if instead of "984" it should be "983", you could correctly say that you must correct a single data value. But if it actually should be "973", then, possibly, you must fix data? It is two digits now, instead of only one, even if both are parts of the same number. I would say, it's a moot point.

Moreover. Even if you are sure :-D, it doesn't mean I am going to start using it this way. I work among other people, where a particular professional jargon is established (even though most of them do know that a singular of "data" would be "datum" - in latin), and I don't want to look pretentious. You see, I can imagine the following conversation:

- I need to fix some data, and then I will get back to you.
- Will it take you long? How much data do you need to fix?
- Not much. Just a thing or two. (Or: "Just one little number." "Just a word or two here and there." - something to this effect.)

I can't imagine myself - or another person - saying "Not much. Just one datum, or, maybe, a couple."

Remember, if 50,000 people say a silly thing, it's still a silly thing.

Well, it depends, on what exactly that silly thing is and exactly how silly it is. Sometimes it is not as silly as you initially think it is, and it may become the new smart thing. That's how the language evolves. For example, the last meaning of the word "data" may become not the least. Or even the first.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/data

[b]da?ta[/b]
  [i]–noun[/i]
1. a pl. of datum.  
2. (used with a plural verb) individual facts, statistics, or items of information: These data represent the results of our analyses. Data are entered by terminal for immediate processing by the computer.  
3. (used with a singular verb) a body of facts; information: Additional data is available from the president of the firm.

 

[SilentAiche]

Technically, shouldn't Commander Data be referred to as Commander Datum until he gets married?

Tim


[purple] And wasn't Merkin that wizard who helped out King Arthur... his English ought to be spot on!

Just kidding - I couldn't even find "Merkin" in my old english dictionary (a 1964 Webster's, to be exact).[/purple]

[blue]_______________________________________
If you can't read this sigarette, check your filter.[/blue]

 

[Trevoke]

SilentAiche, I guess one must understand that he has at least two...

"That time in Seattle... was a nightmare. I came out of it dead broke, without a house, without anything except a girlfriend and a knowledge of UNIX."
"Well, that's something," Avi says. "Normally those two are mutually exclusive."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon"

 

[SamBones]

Hmmm...

I am happy to say I am not hooked on Star Anything (so those who might take offense - please don't).

STELLA

Gender: Feminine
Usage: English
Pronounced: STEL-a

Medieval name meaning "star", derived from the Latin title of the Virgin Mary stella maris, meaning "star of the sea". This name was used by the 16th-century poet Sir Philip Sidney in his collection of sonnets 'Astrophel and Stella'.

From:

http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=stella

 

[SantaMufasa]

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[SF0751]

I didn't think that Data was capable of reproduction (in the human sense), so isn't he (it?) already "fixed"?

Susan
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls, and looks like work." - Thomas A. Edison

 

[Stella740pl]

Usage: English
...
Medieval name meaning "star"...

Yes, yes, I know what it means since I was a child (never heard the etymology story, though).
But I also know what it doesn't mean.
It definitely doesn't mean that I have to collect/watch/love/be interested in anything that have a slightest hint of the word or its denotation.

As for the English usage, I wouldn't be so sure. Definitely not only English. English is not my first language, for that matter.

 

[AngelB]

Data is a humanoid robot character

<cough>
Android
</cough>

I know, I know - nerd alert!


Geraint

The lights are on but nobody's home, my elevator doesn't go to the top. I'm not playing with a full deck, I've lost my marbles. Barenaked Ladies - Crazy

 

[Lunatic]

AngelB

Techinically robot is correct, as an android is a variation of a robot, designed to look, act, feel, and blend in with humans....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android

And I believe there were 5 Data created, the Federation Data was the most well known one. So if taken as a whole I guess Data would be more correct than Datum...

(dang college years - I'm not a Star Trek fan but friends were... argh!)

 

[jrbarnett]

I hereby apologies to everybody for taking this thread off topic and the ensuing debate. The words "Data" and "Datum" have nothing to do with grammar and punctuation.



John

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Techinically robot is correct,
Lunatic - Is 'techinically' a robotics term that we should know about?

jrbarnett - No apolgies necessary. The proper use of singular and plural terms, as well as capitalization, is part of grammar and punctuation. I have quite a few datum points on the matter, one of which may require editing.

==> And I believe there were 5 Data created, ...
That's an unusual case. If, in this context, Data is a proper noun, and based on the Federation reference, it appears so, then is should be "there were five Datas created." You would add an 's' to pluralize the proper noun Data, even though you would not for the common noun data.

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[Ed2020]

If the rule around split infinitives is a rule then I sometimes choose to completely ignore it. Or sometimes I even ignore it completely...

I also sometimes disobey rules if the majority of people I'm writing to will assume I am wrong if I do it correctly (and also if the correspondence is fairly informal). "Its" with a possessive "s" but with an apostrophe is a very common mistake in my place of work. If I write it correctly it concerns me that most readers will assume *my* grammar is incorrect.

Other bugbears of mine (for the same reason) are:

Ad hoc (should be two words, not one, and not hyphenated)
All right (not "alright")
"With whom", rather than "who with"

Ed Metcalfe.

Please do not feed the trolls.....

 

[Welshbird]

My personal un-favourite (eh?) is the misuse of "your" and "you're". Arg!

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[philhege]

Different than" grates on my soul.

Phil Hegedusich
Senior Programmer/Analyst
IIMAK

http://www.iimak.com

-----------
I'll have the roast duck with the mango salsa.

 

[guitarzan]

Not sure if this counts, since (I think) both are acceptable... but if I'm referring to an event that's historic, I just can't bring myself to say "an historic event". Doesn't roll off my tongue nicely.

 

[MeGustaXL]

I just can't bring myself to say "an historic event".

Ditto " An Hotel"

BTW - GREAT handle

Chris

If yer see a Rook on 'is own, im's a Crow. If yer sees a flock o' Crows, them's Rooks - My Uncle Cecil

 

[flapeyre]

I can't stand it when people say that this or that post has a "grammer" problem (This is the only "grammer" I know of).


Feles mala! Cur cista non uteris? Stramentum novum in ea posui!

 

[jrbarnett]

Another one. This time I hear it every day on my way to work while waiting for the train:

"Please do not leave your luggage unattended at this station. Luggage left unattended will be removed without warning and may be destroyed by the security services."

John

 

[MeGustaXL]

"Different than" grates on my soul.

Why?

Different to

grates on mine, because the word "Different" implies divergence, whereas "to" implies convergence, so it's tautological.

jrbarnett: Which rule of punc or gram is the subject of your unattended luggage quote? Unless it's the impied pause between "warning" and "and", in which case an "Oxford Comma" would be nice, but since it's spoken over the PA, I assume the pause is there naturally.

Chris

If yer see a Rook on 'is own, im's a Crow. If yer sees a flock o' Crows, them's Rooks - My Uncle Cecil

 

[jrbarnett]

Its the use of a double negative ("do not" and "unattended")

"Please keep your luggage attended at all times at this station. Unattended items may be removed or destroyed" would be a better way of phrasing it IMHO.

John