CosmoKramer
Programmer
Is this another example of extreme political correctness?
Hoc nomen meum verum non est.
Hoc nomen meum verum non est.
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Extreme political correctness??? 17
- Thread starter CosmoKramer
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MasterRacker
New member
(I can just see what's coming in a few years. Male connectors plug into female connectors. Oh my god, did the female connector consent? What about the hermaphrodites? We're being discriminatory...)
Dealing with people is one thing - dealing with objects is another. To get back to the original point: master-slave is a precise technical description of the relationship. The slave device is not a "secondary" or "auxillary" device, it it precisely a "slave" device. It's communications and/or function is controlled by the master device.
These ridiculous things come up because a)some people have too much time, b)Some people are looking for a way to make a buck off some stupid lawsuit, c) some people are idiots, d) <insert your own reason here>
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
Dealing with people is one thing - dealing with objects is another. To get back to the original point: master-slave is a precise technical description of the relationship. The slave device is not a "secondary" or "auxillary" device, it it precisely a "slave" device. It's communications and/or function is controlled by the master device.
These ridiculous things come up because a)some people have too much time, b)Some people are looking for a way to make a buck off some stupid lawsuit, c) some people are idiots, d) <insert your own reason here>
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
alright... d) The majority is often inconsiderate to the minority, furthermore, the victor writes history... hence, when the opressed becomes a real functioning segment of society, or when the opressor becomes enlightened about past actions it comes to light that for years following an opression or atrocity or general cruelty language holds on far longer than the acts themselves, giving a certain level of legitimacy to past actions.
Lets take your example in parens at the top of the post... ridiculous right? I agree completely... however if I opened up a new computer and it said rape the female connector with the male connector, I'd certainlly be appalled.
As a side note, whenever these types of conversations happen, why do people like to throw in their one example of a ridiculous form of political correctness? I'm curious as much because I've seen myself do it when I've been on the other side of the discussion... but just for the sake of getting some out of the way... people are short, not vertically challenged, people are overweight, not girth enhanced, ships sunk, they don't become bouyantly challenged, and so on and so on... please people, no one here is saying PC doesn't go to far, hyperbole isn't going to sway the argument unless thats the one being made.
-Rob
Lets take your example in parens at the top of the post... ridiculous right? I agree completely... however if I opened up a new computer and it said rape the female connector with the male connector, I'd certainlly be appalled.
As a side note, whenever these types of conversations happen, why do people like to throw in their one example of a ridiculous form of political correctness? I'm curious as much because I've seen myself do it when I've been on the other side of the discussion... but just for the sake of getting some out of the way... people are short, not vertically challenged, people are overweight, not girth enhanced, ships sunk, they don't become bouyantly challenged, and so on and so on... please people, no one here is saying PC doesn't go to far, hyperbole isn't going to sway the argument unless thats the one being made.
-Rob
Not only am I still shaking my head on this particular story, I now find myself shaking my head on this thread.
The master/slave relationship between IDE devices is not referring to race, creed, color, or origin of humans. It is referring to the relationship between two inanimate objects.
The words used are merely referring to the relationship between the two devices.
How could an individual human find this offensive?
When someone works hard, and earns a "masters" degree, is this politically incorrect?
When your mother was "slaving" over a hot stove to put away canned goods for food, (as mine did every summer) was this also politically incorrect?
Sometimes the words used are merely used because they fit the description of the role a particular device plays in the scheme of things. Not to mention, the definition of the words used. Is websters dictionary also politically incorrect?
I do not believe the manufacturers should have to retool all of their production lines, at great cost for that matter, just to satisfy someone looking for something to complain about.
By the way, who do you think would pay for these additional retoolings? Yup you guessed it, everyone would.
Isn't it 5:00PM yet?
The master/slave relationship between IDE devices is not referring to race, creed, color, or origin of humans. It is referring to the relationship between two inanimate objects.
The words used are merely referring to the relationship between the two devices.
How could an individual human find this offensive?
When someone works hard, and earns a "masters" degree, is this politically incorrect?
When your mother was "slaving" over a hot stove to put away canned goods for food, (as mine did every summer) was this also politically incorrect?
Sometimes the words used are merely used because they fit the description of the role a particular device plays in the scheme of things. Not to mention, the definition of the words used. Is websters dictionary also politically incorrect?
I do not believe the manufacturers should have to retool all of their production lines, at great cost for that matter, just to satisfy someone looking for something to complain about.
By the way, who do you think would pay for these additional retoolings? Yup you guessed it, everyone would.
Isn't it 5:00PM yet?
Seeing as it's local goverment...
I suspect someone wanted to make some brownie points for being "sensitive to the needs of others" and filed a complaint.
Chip H.
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
I suspect someone wanted to make some brownie points for being "sensitive to the needs of others" and filed a complaint.
Chip H.
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
If Dell uses a color the consumer finds objectionable and won't purchase, they have every right not to re-tool and go out of business, or they can re-tool, pass the cost on, and start making money.
It's no different here. The companies can do whatever they choose, the county can do as it chooses, and we can all go on. If it enters the courts, this whole concept of whether or not it's ok for the county to do what it's doing becomes reasonable, until then, it's a purchasing agent just like any other, the manufacturers can choose to respond, or not to.... please don't tell me you support their right to sue the county for discrimination against their product? (Although let's remember the county never said, nor is saying it wouldn't buy these products)
-Rob
It's no different here. The companies can do whatever they choose, the county can do as it chooses, and we can all go on. If it enters the courts, this whole concept of whether or not it's ok for the county to do what it's doing becomes reasonable, until then, it's a purchasing agent just like any other, the manufacturers can choose to respond, or not to.... please don't tell me you support their right to sue the county for discrimination against their product? (Although let's remember the county never said, nor is saying it wouldn't buy these products)
-Rob
I find a lot of "so-called" political correctness insulting, it implies that I am too delicate to handle certain terms, that denigrates me.
(And if you think "you throw like a girl" is insulting, stand at the recieving end when I chuck something.)
However, if a term genuinely offends any group its use should be reconsidered (though I'm not sure how you measure that).
I'm encouraged by the current trend to "reclaim" words, the gay community has grabbed back "queer".
The words only have the power that individuals give them.
(And if you think "you throw like a girl" is insulting, stand at the recieving end when I chuck something.)
However, if a term genuinely offends any group its use should be reconsidered (though I'm not sure how you measure that).
I'm encouraged by the current trend to "reclaim" words, the gay community has grabbed back "queer".
The words only have the power that individuals give them.
MasterRacker
New member
Rob,
Connectors cannot rape each other becaus e that implies consent, which objects do not have. Some extreme feminists would object the phrase "plug into" and would insist that the famale connector "plugs over" the male connector. (Don't laugh, I actually heard this one and about had an embolism.) There are feminists that object to the word female.
If Dell makes an objectionable color, but it's cheaper than other colors, I would say that the county is breaking it's sacred trust by choosing lesss objectionable colors. The number one job of any governments agency is to save taxpayer (my) money).
Common courtesy and manners when dealing with others is something we all should aspire to. "Political Correctness" is extremist, ridiculous and something I find offensive. It's essentially someone else trying to tell me how to think.
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
Connectors cannot rape each other becaus e that implies consent, which objects do not have. Some extreme feminists would object the phrase "plug into" and would insist that the famale connector "plugs over" the male connector. (Don't laugh, I actually heard this one and about had an embolism.) There are feminists that object to the word female.
If Dell makes an objectionable color, but it's cheaper than other colors, I would say that the county is breaking it's sacred trust by choosing lesss objectionable colors. The number one job of any governments agency is to save taxpayer (my) money).
Common courtesy and manners when dealing with others is something we all should aspire to. "Political Correctness" is extremist, ridiculous and something I find offensive. It's essentially someone else trying to tell me how to think.
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
Well... paragraph by paragraph...
And hence, fringe groups whose purchasing power and other sway won't really change alot... sure sometimes they'll bring up points which other groups or even the majority agrees with, and that may bring about chage... put plugs into will likely not change as a phrase because this group (according to your claim) objects. And no one said the connectors would be raping each other, it would simply be a description of the act you are to carry out, just like no one said the master devices are buying slave devices or treating them inhumanely or anything of the sort. The conversation sounds farcical, but I wonder if rape had ever been an acceptable part of our society which after being banned persisted in subverted ways if the conversation would still sound farcical.
The #1 job of any goverment agency is to save taxpayer money? I won't even approach such a claim, I'm just glad this isn't the view of any government agency... I wish they had it higher on their priority lists no doubt, but am glad it's nobody's #1.
And that's why I think this conversation has been so fruitless in alot of ways... some people hear PC and say oh goodness, that's horrible! I hear it, and think, oh great, this conversation again... there's alot of good thats come from PC, and alot of bad... it's both useful and laughable, I've never had a response like the ones here ... never felt controlled by PC language and certainlly never felt someone was telling me how to think. I've never felt threatened at work or school or home because of the limitations, and in fact, I've felt much more comfortable in certain circles when trully offensive language dropped out of them.
-Rob
And hence, fringe groups whose purchasing power and other sway won't really change alot... sure sometimes they'll bring up points which other groups or even the majority agrees with, and that may bring about chage... put plugs into will likely not change as a phrase because this group (according to your claim) objects. And no one said the connectors would be raping each other, it would simply be a description of the act you are to carry out, just like no one said the master devices are buying slave devices or treating them inhumanely or anything of the sort. The conversation sounds farcical, but I wonder if rape had ever been an acceptable part of our society which after being banned persisted in subverted ways if the conversation would still sound farcical.
The #1 job of any goverment agency is to save taxpayer money? I won't even approach such a claim, I'm just glad this isn't the view of any government agency... I wish they had it higher on their priority lists no doubt, but am glad it's nobody's #1.
And that's why I think this conversation has been so fruitless in alot of ways... some people hear PC and say oh goodness, that's horrible! I hear it, and think, oh great, this conversation again... there's alot of good thats come from PC, and alot of bad... it's both useful and laughable, I've never had a response like the ones here ... never felt controlled by PC language and certainlly never felt someone was telling me how to think. I've never felt threatened at work or school or home because of the limitations, and in fact, I've felt much more comfortable in certain circles when trully offensive language dropped out of them.
-Rob
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1
- #49
A few years back a guy (sorry PERSON) called George Orwell wrote a prophetic book about all this. Anyone remember the reference to NewSpeak and the concepts behind it?
....If you can control the use of the language, you can control the thoughts of the people.
That's what PC is all about!
________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'
....If you can control the use of the language, you can control the thoughts of the people.
That's what PC is all about!
________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first
'If we're supposed to work in Hex, why have we only got A fingers?'
And who, is big brother? Who exactly is it trying to control my thoughts on their way towards fulfilling Orwell's prophecy?
For goodness sake, the worst segments of PC are louts with too much time and a big chip on their shoulder, the best segments of PC have made great strides in eliminating racial slurs from daily language... but by all means, if it's all a great conspiracy to rule my brain waves, let me know who's behind it.
1984 is a great book, the discussion on NewSpeak is powerful, especially if you want to apply it to groups like the Catholic Church of the Dark Ages or to todays Press Corps... or to people who believe in enlightened despots and aristocracies... but I think you're stretching it to apply it here.
-Rob
For goodness sake, the worst segments of PC are louts with too much time and a big chip on their shoulder, the best segments of PC have made great strides in eliminating racial slurs from daily language... but by all means, if it's all a great conspiracy to rule my brain waves, let me know who's behind it.
1984 is a great book, the discussion on NewSpeak is powerful, especially if you want to apply it to groups like the Catholic Church of the Dark Ages or to todays Press Corps... or to people who believe in enlightened despots and aristocracies... but I think you're stretching it to apply it here.
-Rob
You could go back further..
When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master--that's all.'
"Alice Through the Looking Glass"
When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master--that's all.'
"Alice Through the Looking Glass"
I think, if the county wants such terms removed, they should either pay their vendors to apply new labels to equipment, manuals, etc., or hire workers to do the same job. That should improve the budget situation in California. Of course, there may still be a problem getting technical support. The folks in India are probably still learning the words the manufacturer uses. Short of that, the county should probably buy lots of pens & pencils to keep their records.
Meanwhile, as poor people struggle to survive...
Meanwhile, as poor people struggle to survive...
MasterRacker
New member
johnwm, I was going to bring that up. Another example, is Ray Bradbury in Farenehit 451. Burn the books and the ideas behind them go away.
The loonies are trying to create some flowery paradise where no-one dislikes anyone else and never insults anyone else. What a boring place that would be.
(Got a little heated on the county thing. #1. Public Safety. #2 Do everything as cheaply as possible. I do still say the it's criminal to consider peoples feelings as any justification to spend public money though. Perfomr the task as cheaply as possible)
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
The loonies are trying to create some flowery paradise where no-one dislikes anyone else and never insults anyone else. What a boring place that would be.
(Got a little heated on the county thing. #1. Public Safety. #2 Do everything as cheaply as possible. I do still say the it's criminal to consider peoples feelings as any justification to spend public money though. Perfomr the task as cheaply as possible)
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
It'll be cheaper for them to lock you up when your neighbor's window is busted than to do an investigation...
I mean seriously, there're about a dozen things I'd like them to consider before worrying about price.
The loonies are trying to create some flowery paradise where no-one dislikes anyone else and never insults anyone else. What a boring place that would be.
You should've stated this sooner... if I would've known we fundamentally disagreed on a good place for the world to strive for it would've saved me alot of typing.
-Rob
I mean seriously, there're about a dozen things I'd like them to consider before worrying about price.
The loonies are trying to create some flowery paradise where no-one dislikes anyone else and never insults anyone else. What a boring place that would be.
You should've stated this sooner... if I would've known we fundamentally disagreed on a good place for the world to strive for it would've saved me alot of typing.
-Rob
The comedian Stan Freburg poked some fun at Politcal Correctness (before the term even existed) back in the 1960's:
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."
--Leonardo da Vinci
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."
--Leonardo da Vinci
CajunCenturion
Programmer
Well, based on what I've read so far, I think we can all agree on one word from the thread title.
Extreme.
Just wondering, does this PC run Windows, or Red (can I say red) Hat?
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
Extreme.
Just wondering, does this PC run Windows, or Red (can I say red) Hat?
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
MasterRacker
New member
Naw, "red" might be a precise technical description. Not allowed in the PC world - somebody might find the color offensive.
Cajun, you caught me. I place PC below lawyers on the ladder of society.
rob,
<off point> not investigating is not doing the job in the first place </off point>
I think we disagree on where the line for PC is drawn. As different groups are assimilated into society, over time, certain slurs and phrases, etc., by majority consent will dissappear from the language. That's the evolution of manners and courtesy, not PC. (it's also the exact opposite of cultural diversity, it's cultural merging - a very good thing)
When the intellegentsia activists begin to control the language by eliminating or redefining words, they're also trying to eliminate ideas, and that's beyond wrong.
Cajun, you brought this up earlier:
One of my favorites is the following:
To whom am I referring?
The Potomic River Basin Indigenous Persons?
I'm guessing you're refering to the Washington Redskins.
When the majority of society changes enough that people boycott, the stadium empties and they change the name, that's fine. People on the street corner with signs protesting is fine. Protesters actively interferring in any way with others going to the game is absolutely wrong.
Back to the original point: Looking back up the posts it looks like 99% agree that very idea thet there's anything wrong with the technical term "master/slave" or someone being offended by it is completely ridiculous.
[red]Can a Mac user be part of the PC crowd?[/red]
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
Cajun, you caught me. I place PC below lawyers on the ladder of society.
rob,
<off point> not investigating is not doing the job in the first place </off point>
I think we disagree on where the line for PC is drawn. As different groups are assimilated into society, over time, certain slurs and phrases, etc., by majority consent will dissappear from the language. That's the evolution of manners and courtesy, not PC. (it's also the exact opposite of cultural diversity, it's cultural merging - a very good thing)
When the intellegentsia activists begin to control the language by eliminating or redefining words, they're also trying to eliminate ideas, and that's beyond wrong.
Cajun, you brought this up earlier:
One of my favorites is the following:
To whom am I referring?
The Potomic River Basin Indigenous Persons?
I'm guessing you're refering to the Washington Redskins.
When the majority of society changes enough that people boycott, the stadium empties and they change the name, that's fine. People on the street corner with signs protesting is fine. Protesters actively interferring in any way with others going to the game is absolutely wrong.
Back to the original point: Looking back up the posts it looks like 99% agree that very idea thet there's anything wrong with the technical term "master/slave" or someone being offended by it is completely ridiculous.
[red]Can a Mac user be part of the PC crowd?[/red]
Jeff
The future is already here - it's just not widely distributed yet...
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2
- #58
skiflier
I'm not kidding here--I find your declaration:
whoever picked the terms was an idiot
very offensive, and hypocritical. You've never met that person, and those terms were obviously well suited and not meant to mean offense. The reality is that Master and Slave have meanings, and those meanings fit their use in most cases here. Obviously the vast, vast majority of people were not offended, and know what is meant by those terms in the hardware industry--so why is he (or she) an idiot? Because one person claimed they were offended? Could it be that you and maybe a few others are harboring some latent, unspecified guilt and feel the need to grab some cheap, hollow atonement by supporting the few who say they were offended?
It boils down to numbers...
Just because one person is offended, does that mean everyone should have to change?
Even if more than one are offended--so then, at what percentage of offendees does the government (in this case) draw the line as to when to take or suggest action?
--jsteph
I'm not kidding here--I find your declaration:
whoever picked the terms was an idiot
very offensive, and hypocritical. You've never met that person, and those terms were obviously well suited and not meant to mean offense. The reality is that Master and Slave have meanings, and those meanings fit their use in most cases here. Obviously the vast, vast majority of people were not offended, and know what is meant by those terms in the hardware industry--so why is he (or she) an idiot? Because one person claimed they were offended? Could it be that you and maybe a few others are harboring some latent, unspecified guilt and feel the need to grab some cheap, hollow atonement by supporting the few who say they were offended?
It boils down to numbers...
Just because one person is offended, does that mean everyone should have to change?
Even if more than one are offended--so then, at what percentage of offendees does the government (in this case) draw the line as to when to take or suggest action?
--jsteph
That's what I call a politically correct response, jsteph!
Keep rockin'!
![[rockband]](/data/assets/smilies/rockband.gif "[rockband] [rockband]")
Andreas Galambos
EDP / Technical Support Specialist
(andreas.galambos@bowneglobal.de)
HP:
Keep rockin'!
Andreas Galambos
EDP / Technical Support Specialist
(andreas.galambos@bowneglobal.de)
HP:
Fair enough, the person may not have been an idiot, but in my opinion they made a bad word choice.
And yes, it is quite apparent to me that I have a different version of PC in my head than do most postings in this thread. As a movement I'm in complete agreement. As a concept towards courtesy I'm not. In this case, as a market pressure I support it, as a government mandate I despise it.
Please, don't misunderstand, I'm definitely of the crowd who supports the "sir I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" (Franklin I think) side of things. In this case, I defend the manufacturers right to put whatever they like on the side of their equipment, and the IT departments right to label their material as they need to for clear communication. At the same time, I fully support the county's right to attempt influence with their purchasing power, and -if- it were my corporation (the county, not the manufacturer), it would be my preference that the terms did not appear on my equipment as well... not to the extent that I would boycot, but to the extent that if I had choice, or had the ability to help create choice, I would. But yes, ultimately it seems to me the disagreement here really is on what people consider PC, and having done a little news reading and radio listening on the topic last night (timely radio show I thought) I have to admit, I believe I was taking a naive approach to the term.
-Rob
And yes, it is quite apparent to me that I have a different version of PC in my head than do most postings in this thread. As a movement I'm in complete agreement. As a concept towards courtesy I'm not. In this case, as a market pressure I support it, as a government mandate I despise it.
Please, don't misunderstand, I'm definitely of the crowd who supports the "sir I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" (Franklin I think) side of things. In this case, I defend the manufacturers right to put whatever they like on the side of their equipment, and the IT departments right to label their material as they need to for clear communication. At the same time, I fully support the county's right to attempt influence with their purchasing power, and -if- it were my corporation (the county, not the manufacturer), it would be my preference that the terms did not appear on my equipment as well... not to the extent that I would boycot, but to the extent that if I had choice, or had the ability to help create choice, I would. But yes, ultimately it seems to me the disagreement here really is on what people consider PC, and having done a little news reading and radio listening on the topic last night (timely radio show I thought) I have to admit, I believe I was taking a naive approach to the term.
-Rob
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