Exiting the IT Environment 4

[arthurliz]

Here is the premise...
All of us have done extremely well in IT world, but....
We never seem to have had the respect, possilby the power,and even the cash that comes from being the person in charge...and I don't mean in charge of IT.

Our question is this, can you exit the IT world into something else, for example finance and because you are extremly familiar with IT you become a top dog?

Here is a real life example. We know a pair of programmers who used to kill themselves writing software for securites traders. The programmers watched the traders make lots of money and toss a bone to the programmers. As we have heard it from the ex programmers, yes the bone was good and perhaps better than normal but hell if the traders made millions with the software, the programmers got thousands.
So the two guys completely quit IT pooled every nickel they had and then set up a own real live securites brokerage firm. Now they write software for themselves and make the bread based on successful trading strategies.

Anybody else quit IT and go dwon the road to fortune and perhaps eventually fame?

 

[langleymass]

kHz,

Get out of there. Incompetent managers generally don't get punished.

 

[johnherman]

A word about the "sexual harrassment" aspect. Having had training in this area (how to prevent it, not how to do it), it is generally recognized that sexual harrassment does not exist until one worker indicates to another (or to the boss, or to HR) that the he/she finds aspects of the behavior of the other to be offensive. So, until you document that you are offended about being asked about your sexual plans for the weekend, that conversation is fair game.

A famous story involves a guy who had a 3x5 framed photo of his wife in a bikini sitting on his desk (which had been taken on a recent vacation). A coworker saw the photo and told HR that she felt is was sexual harrassment and the guy had to remove his wife's photo.

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The trouble with doing something right the first time is that noboby appreciates how difficult it was.
- Steven Wright

 

[lionelhill]

No, there is something very wrong about that way of thinking.

(1) Some acts are so obviously wrong that you do not have to have the disapproval of the victim for them to qualify as harrassment. In my culture (UK), if you slap a coworker's bottom, they don't have to tell you they disapprove for it to be a (very) serious matter. A boss would be right to discipline a staff-member who did this, even if the person on the receiving end prefered to ignore it rather than stirr up office discontent. Societies have certain standards that we have to follow irrespective of victim's opt-out (extreme example: German court's attitude to willing-victim canibalism).
There is no defence in saying "but she didn't try to stop me!" because she may not have had the chance. You can't even say "it's OK because the boss does it". If an employee chooses not to complain about grossly inappropriate behaviour from one person, whatever the reason, that doesn't give everyone else the right to join in.

(2) Some other acts are so clearly right that no matter how offended one particular individual is, no harrassment offence has actually taken place. Say the wife-picture is a knee-length skirt? I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd consider that outrageously provocative. But I can't see a UK personnel department getting terribly upset about it. Encountering a culture-clash isn't automatically harrassment (or shouldn't be).

(3) I think what you mean is that there is a large grey area where something may or may not be offensive depending on the victim - and in those instances, the victim's opinion is what counts. But equally, until the victim has voiced an opinion and the offender has ignored it, you can't accuse the offender of much worse than poor sensitivity. It's down to your local social traditions whether it's OK to ask about plans for the weekend like that...

 

[johnherman]

Let me repreface my remarks with "According to the US Government definition of sexual harassment".....since lionellhill is correct regarding other cultures and, like the American I am, I wrongly assumed an American workplace culture.

You are correct that some offenses, sexual assault, indecent exposure, offensive touching, etc, do not require "warnings" due to governmental laws or company personnel policies.

However, it is acceptable, for instance, for co-workers to hug each other, but if a third party is offended and brings that incident up to the attention of either or both of the huggers, to HR, or otherwise through channels, the huggers can no longer hug. Same held for greetings which include kisses, etc. Same argument holds for borderline sexual innuendo and humor and office pictures and calendars such as the wife in the bikini or Miss February.

I wonder if an Islamic worker could claim sexual harassment from all pictures of women who did not have face veils. Or even wearing them to work. Hmmmmm. The way American courts have been ruling, it wouldn't surprise me.



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The trouble with doing something right the first time is that noboby appreciates how difficult it was.
- Steven Wright

 

[chiph]

In the immortal words of the Pythons:

http://arago4.tn.utwente.nl/stonedead/movies/holy-grail/ra/21-08.ra

Chip H.


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[vitaminD12]

hey you all.........
great reading at "exiting the IT environment"!
specialist wrote on Feb 01, 2005
"...regardless of what you do, how many of you actually wake up in the morning and look forward to going to work? ..."
and then
"....If not, can you envision yourself waking up each morning and going to a job (any job) you sincerely enjoy?.."
I actually do - I work 2 jobs (IT and retail) - and I look forward to both of them!
I don't think that the main problem for most of us is to exit something and/or enter something else with better pay, benefits etc. I think that the cause of misery is not where you are in your life. It is the other way around: you are miserable and this is why you are where you are. Moving anywhere is not gonna save you from being miserable. You gotta find resources within, stomp that misery out and make yourself happy – a lot of good things (but maybe not everything else) will follow. I sincerely laugh when people tell me about incompetent bosses, stupid renovations, waist of resources etc. It is such a great source of entertaining - forget your TV. I’m quite young though - need a decade or so to become a pessimist……….

 

[alexhu]

need a decade or so to become a pessimist……….

You do........ and you will

Alex

 

[Skittle]

I have had to put up with an exil co-worker for quite a while with a similar boss.

Unless there is ever anything you can really prove, the only option is to take the hammering, let them continue their games and look for another job.

My experience has also been that by letting them do this sort of thing, others also start to see whats going on. The calander issue is a prime example. Others will wonder why only one member of the dpt is not included. Over a period of time I've found that without me saying a word, people throughout the company have wise up.

Dazed and confused

 

[lionelhill]

<offtopic=hugely!>
Thanks, Johnhermann, for the clarification and not being offended by my rather definitely-worded ethical rant! Law and ethics are always two different things; I personally think we members of the public should use our tiny, tiny influence to push for laws are sensible and serve us well, reflecting our ethical needs, rather than laws that are well-meant but become daft obstacles to leading a normal life.

The really scary thing, (very personal view) is when non-lawyers such as personel departments (or worse, trainers) decide to become hobby-lawyers, forcing ideas on us that are contrary to the spirit of the original law. There's often a tendancy to do this to prove they know their stuff...

But real lawyers argue about things before making a judgment, whereas if a personel department decides your wife's photograph is offensive, there's often no discussion, no defence, no court of appeal, just their illogical decision. You can accept it or leave. If you leave (and is it worth it for a photo?) you face being unofficially black-listed by future employers as a trouble-maker.

 

[langleymass]

I got this from an e-mail group. I found it interesting:

"My take on this, having just left my IT/IS job of 9.5 years, is that there has been an influx of technically-compromised, politically-driven people into tech in the last couple of years. So what USED to be a haven for practical, logical, non-political (in office terms), fact- and skill-oriented people has become the same kind of annoying manipulation-ridden morass as the rest of corporate America."

What does everyone think?

 

[bytehd]

My take on this, having just left my IT/IS job of 9.5 years, is that there has been an influx of technically-compromised, politically-driven people into tech in the last couple of years. So what USED to be a haven for practical, logical, non-political (in office terms), fact- and skill-oriented people has become the same kind of annoying manipulation-ridden morass as the rest of corporate America."

Seems that way to me.
Or more often, MBAs thinking IT "is just another department"
we can mess up...er control.

George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge

http://www.insyncva.com

 

[jwenting]

IT isn't immune from office politics. What changed things was when IT moved out from the mom and pop shops and the university labs and into the corporate world with large departments and deadlines.

IT IS just another department from a business perspective. While we may love to have a pool billiard in the office (and during the .com boom we sometimes had one) if it doesn't increase the profit margin of the company it won't get funded.

 

[kHz]

The problem is that for most businesses, IT is and expense. IT departments do no create revenue, and too many fail to use the methods that are available to them to decrease costs for the company. Server consolidation can save a company money, as well as capacity planning. But unfortunately, businesses do not use those methods to cut costs.

 

[langleymass]

I never had a need for a pool table or a pinball machine. I didn't think it was my employer's duty to provide one.

I know that I don't bring in revenue from outside sources. But I save the company more than I cost because I support technologies that sometimes replace people or free them up to do other things. It's an old cliche, but TIME IS MONEY.

How much does snail-mail cost? How much does e-mail cost? How long does it take to send e-mail and snail-mail?

Based on that, we technical professionals are probably more valuable than anyone in a company. And we do work that most people either can't do or don't even want to try to do.

I also feel like I am making an important difference in the world. Computers and the Internet are giving people access to more information than they ever thought possible 20 years ago.

Our task is to make other people understand this, instead of allowing them to sweep us under the rug.

 

[mmorancbt]

Langleymass,

First, I hope you enjoy the book!!

Good observation above. The role of a good technology pro is to discover areas where technology can perform one of its two roles (get ready for a broadbrushed and far-reaching statement). Yes, I believe useful technology is built for two purposes (in a business context).

1) The Storage and Retrieval of information for analysis and decision support. File storage, database storage, etc. Retrieval, application performance, reporting, information distribution/report distribution.

2) The Automation of the Delivery of a product or service. Manufacturing robotics, automated report generation, the memo that the secretary created, web services to deliver customer response/customer support, etc.

If you can make these things happen effectively for an organization, you will be valuable. Of course, that does not mean that a given organization will see it as valuable. That is the other-side of career development.

Your value is only as valuable as the value organization you serve places on your applied skillset. In case the subtle hint was lost in that last sentence, I place a premium on value.

And now I have to get back to providing value for one of my clients. I am building a series of automated report distribution applications. In this case, I am helping retrieve information from their database for analysis and decision support and automating reports that were previously created off of printed sheets and manually distributed.

Later,

Matthew Moran

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

 

[langleymass]

Well, Matthew,

That's why I am learning neuro-linguistic programming and taking acting lessons. My brain can't help if nobody is going to see it. It's all about what they see.

 

[Castor66]

Notes from a Depressed 39 year old Sys Admin!

If you think you have it bad then how about having a department meeting yesterday and hearing the statement that "All IT have to do this year is survive"! We are not going to develop anything new, change anything unless it breaks and, basically, sit here on our butts waiting for something to break. They really know how to motivate us.

I've been around the block in IT since leaving University in '89 and I find myself becoming increasingly disillusioned with the REMF's in this business. They just don't seem to have a clue. Last year I worked for a large company (1000's of staff worldwide - leader in their field) and they had the stupidest middle management tier ever. They didn't understand what they had and where they were going with technology. Their tunrover was just approaching 1Billion UKP. Just before I left they announced they wouldn't be paying a bonus because we only hit 99.875% of target! Why couldn't they just lie and say we only got to 90%!!!!

I left them to come here because it looked small, dynamic and I would have an input into the process. The pay is good and the company has turnover of about 100Million UKP which is very good for only 50 staff! Then I find that they have no strategy for eveloping the business further. They have just stopped moving forward. They have no ambition and we are in the most dynamic of e-businesses currently. How lame can you get?

I'm thinking of moving away somewhere else. I'm not qualified to do anything but IT which I am particularly good at. I love working with computers and that, and the pay, is what makes me get out of bed each day. What makes me want to stay in bed is the attitude of the REMFs!

I think I'll just leave the country and work in IT somewhere else - maybe a different management would be better.

 

[GlenJohnson]

Great post. Here's a real life story. 50 years old, left IT after almost 20 years. Still have my own consulting business, but for a career, I now work retail. Who looks forward to going to work? ME! I got fed up with the politics and idiots. My old boss was a specialist in Novell, didn' know anything about the MS products. Saw people losing there jobs to people who used brain dumps to get worthless peices of paper with no knowledge and making more money. Employers mostly don't have a clue as to what a brain dump is, or what questions to ask to find out if someone is qualified. I'm working in IT on a daily basis, but it's because I want to, not have to, plus I'm making a good living working for one of the worlds largest retailer with great benifits. Down with IT, long live IT.



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[jwenting]

The problem is that for most businesses, IT is and expense. IT departments do no create revenue, and too many fail to use the methods that are available to them to decrease costs for the company

Depends on how you look at it I guess. While indeed IT departments don't generally create direct revenue they enable other departments to generate more revenue than those departments would otherwise.
Think of an investment bank as an extreme example. Without computers they could handly only a tiny fraction of the transactions and not keep track of market trends with anything approaching the speed and accuracy that they do. Revenue (and thus profit) would collapse.
The same is true in many other businesses.
Some companies try to make that indirect revenue stream visible, most do not.

And yes, I've been in IT projects that got killed for not making a profit which were always understood to be such enabling technologies (like a website which helps potential customers to find the corporate offices in their countries for contacting sales staff and consultants).

 

[BocaBurger]

Exactly, so the potential customers didn't find the sales office and no sales were made. So who gets the blame?



BocaBurger
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