Ethics and Websites like this one ( Are they bad for programmers?) 9

[guestgulkan]

I see a lot of questions/request for help from programmers
to this website (and relevant newsgroups), that make me
think:

a. The questioner has not bothered himself/herself to
analyse the problem.
They have not tried to use the supplied
help files or anything - just straight to the website!

b. They want the website to do their homework for them.
[They may pass the assignment - but have they learnt anything??]

c. They want the website to do their jobs for them.
[No doubt telling their bosses - 'Look how good I am".]

Am I being over-critical ??

 

[svanels]

There are a lot but I don't think that in this forum somebody will come and ask how to hide a bomb in a computer. Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[CajunCenturion]

Not too long ago (within the last two weeks), someone actually asked in the VB forum if someone would please explain how and virus or worm worked, and to please post some sample code. That thread was of course red-flagged and is long gone.

As are the following threads:

More than 1 person has asked about which API to use to get someone's user name and password. Not a password token, but the actual password. I have seen in the VB forum a student actually say they had this homework assignment, and were too busy to complete it, so could someone please post the code. Another has asked how to write a trojan horse.

You may not be seeing these kinds of questions in the fora that you frequent, but in the VB5&6 forum, there is one or two threads per week which fall in one of the previously mentioned genres.

That kind of help is not within the intentions of Tek-Tips. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[svanels]

The explanation of how a worm or virus works is a valid thread from a technical point of view, we all can learn from that. The practical side, you don't sit down on a rainy afternoon and develop a worm. If the guy wants some code, he has to invest in his education. Run a search on API on amazon.com and buy some descent programming books, would be my advise.
Last year a bought a book on remote administration in one of my favorite languages. Some purists would say that it is a hackers and virus writers guide, but reading this stuff gives insight on the mechanisms of hacking and worms. If we were somewhere in the middle-ages could cause the death sentence. Red flagging I use in offensive, vulgair, commercial posts. Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[CajunCenturion]

svanels - Although I will stipulate that a discussion on how a worm or virus works in and of itself has value from a technical perspective, it is not appropriate for such a discussion to take place in a public forum.

Nor it is within policy guidelines established by the Tecumseh Group for Tek-Tips. The purpose of Tek-Tips is be a resource for professionals within the IT industry to help deal with the issues of their professional life. The forums are here to foster dialogue among professionals on work-related topics, in a non-commercial environment. Neither homework nor the development of worms qualify.

Whether you agree or not with the policy is not the issue. It is the policy. Those are the rules established by those who have provided, maintain, and are responsible for these fora.

Whether or not you choose to abide by these rules or to help enforce this policy by red-flagging inappropriate posts, not by your or my standards of appropriateness, but by the standards established by the forum providers is, of course, your own decision. Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[svanels]

Well if I was a system administrator and I was in charge of the corporate mail-server, I would de diggin in the worm and virus theory to protect my clients and job. This have nothing to do with public forum. Only when you have knowledge of something you can plan against it. Or you will be doomed to consult witch doctors!! Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[sleipnir214]

svanels,

You don't get it, do you? They nice people whose servers we are using right now say that discussion of worms and virii are inappropriate.

It doesn't matter that you urinate in your bushes at home -- that you do so doesn't make it all right to do it when you are a guest in someone else's home. ______________________________________________________________________
TANSTAAFL!

 

[apex1x]

I believe you guys are once again beating a specific example to death. Yes, the purpose of Tek-Tips is be a resource for professionals within the IT industry to help deal with the issues of their professional life. However, dont get too caught up with this worm thing, as some IT professionals may find the information in this thread helpful in their job. If you feel as though the thread is definately against policy then either ignore it or red flag it and let management deal with it.
In general, we must use our own judgement to assess the appropriateness of a particular post/thread. Learning how a gun works doesn't mean you are going to go get one and start shooting people. It depends on the context of the situation and how the information is taken by the viewer.
~Apex1x
Miller's Law:
You can't tell how deep a puddle is until you step into it.

 

[svanels]

There is also a general virus discussion form, and a zonealarm form amongst others. Apex1x I liked the example of the gun. Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[sleipnir214]

apex1x,

If Tek-Tips were a group on Usenet, I would agree with you. Ethics on Usenet are set by consensus.

However, Tek-Tips is not a part of Usenet. Tek-Tips is owned by a private company, the Tecumseh Group. As such, Tecumseh gets to say what is and is not acceptible in Tek-Tips.

You can use your judgement within the constraints of what Tecumseh says is okay, but that is as far as it goes. In my own conversations with Tecumseh people, I have learned that some things are a no-go: students posting homework questions; cross-posting; posting to your own thread to bounce it back to the top of a forum; use of obscene language; and discussions of the construction of virii, worms, trojan horses, or the like. Right now, since it is the beginning of a new school year, the biggest problem is students posting homework assignments.

You may disagree with the policy, but if you violate it often enough, you can get booted from Tek-Tips. ______________________________________________________________________
TANSTAAFL!

 

[apex1x]

sleipnir214,
You seem to have misunderstood me. I never mentioned wanting to have the group policies based on consensus.
The point is, Tecumseh have not been too specific nor have advertised their policies well. Correct me if i'm wrong but I havn't seen anything regarding viruses, hacking, or other such activies in any policy.
As for homework, promoting, selling, recruiting, obscene language and the like, those have been made readily known as no-no's and are very reasonable policies.
Much like you reiterated, the use of our own judgment within these policies is important. After all, would we consider a question such as asking how to gain remote control of a desktop appropriate? ~Apex1x
Miller's Law:
You can't tell how deep a puddle is until you step into it.