Enabling DMA on CDROM drives ...

[rgstewart]

I'm trying to rip CDs using Digital Audio Extraction ... ripping info in digital format straight from the CDROM. Problem is that although I have digital audio enabled for the CDROM through the device manage, I'm still only able to rip at about 0.9x realtime.

I am now incline to think that it has something to do with the fact that I don't seem to be able to enable DMA on the CDROM drive - when I check the box in the Device Manager properties window and restart it automatically un-checks.

So my question (at last!) - how do I enable DMA, and (to pre-empt the inevitable) how do I know if DMA is NOT supported, and what exactly it is that does not support it?

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[LloydSev]

what make and model of CD-Rom do you have?

It's tough to imagine a CD-Rom made in the last 5 years that does not support DMA. Also check the maker's website to see if there has been a firmware update for the device.

Computer/Network Technician
CCNA

 

[cdogg]

Actually, many CD-ROMs still do not support DMA. I've worked on dozens in just the past couple months that were fairly new and used PIO Mode 4. The main reason is because there is no real need to. Usually you will only see DMA on burners or DVD drives that need to maintain a constant or high transfer rate. How to check or set it depends on your version of Windows.

But for digital audio extraction, I doubt that's the problem.

1) What software are you using?
2) What version of Windows?
3) Are there any other drives connected to the same IDE cable?
4) Are you extracting from CD to Hard Drive?

~cdogg
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[rgstewart]

1) Winamp 5.08
2) Windows ME
3) 1 Samsung CDROM (52x), 1 Lite-On CD-R (52x32x52x)
4) Yes ... slowly!

I have been in the properties for both CDROM and CD-R drives and tried to enable DMA, but every time I restart they both revert to being DMA disabled.

 

[SkipCox]

A couple of suggestions...

Is dma enabled for your hdd(s)? If not, enable it and try again.

You might want to reinstall chipset drivers for your motherboard.

Skip

http://scc.i8.com

 

[cdogg]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. I wouldn't worry about DMA not sticking for the CD-ROM and the CD-R. That is normal, especially since many do not support it.

Do both drives (CD-ROM and CD-R) have the "exact" same problem? Are they limited to the same extraction speed of 0.9x? If so, then I would look at Skip's suggestion to check DMA for the hard drive. That should be enabled without question. However, I don't know if there's a way to check it for hard drives in ME, without using a 3rd-party utility.



~cdogg
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[SkipCox]

I don't have an Me machine running but the enable dma checkbox should be the same for the hdd as it is for either of the cd's.

If chipset drivers are the problem, reinstalling from the motherboard cd (or download) and a reboot will tell the tale. Some printer, camera, or storage device installs can cause problems with chipset drivers on 9x systems.

I recall losing dma support once while running Me, but I don't remember how I fixed it. I think I reinstalled the Via 4 in 1 drivers for my motherboard.

Skip

http://scc.i8.com

 

[garebo]

I dont suppose 40 pin or 80 pin cables figure into this equation as all drives are recognized by the bios. Its just that sometimes a drive wont even be recognized by the bios and you have to change from one ide cable to the other and then all is well. I just dont know if a different cable would affect you being able to enable DMA setting.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[cdogg]

The difference between 40 and 80 "wire" cables is shielding. An ATA/100 drive, for example, will only run at in UDMA mode 5 (ATA/100) on an 80-wire cable. But if you attached it to a 40-pin cable, it should default back to UDMA mode 2 (ATA/33). Both modes are DMA. So the cable shouldn't matter for the CD-ROM drives, only for the hard drive.


I'm not sure how else to reiterate this, but optical device readers (CD-ROM and DVD-ROM) typically do NOT use DMA. This is a fact that you will find with a majority of brands/models out there, especially generic ones. It is wrong to assume that you can force it. Many have specifications that explicitly state PIO Mode compatible only, which is non-DMA.

That's not to say there aren't exceptions. But for the most part, DMA on a CD-ROM is not needed to have high extraction rates. I've got a 4-year old, generic 52x H-Tech CD-ROM that can perform a digital audio extraction on average at 14x. Then I've also got another 4-year old, IOMEGA 16x/10x/32x CD burner that extracts at an average of 22x on the same PC.

Here's the kicker: Both run in PIO Mode, not DMA

Moral: Look elsewhere for your problem

~cdogg
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[garebo]

I know about the shielding part but some cdroms will work with a 40 pin and not with an 80 pin and even vice-versa for some strange reason. And this is usually only a possibility when one cannot even find the cdrom in windows.
In this case the cdrom is available and shows up in windows so i didnt think it would be a matter of which ide cable is being used.

With cdroms not even using DMA then for sure we have to look elsewhere for the problem. Its certainly safe to take cdoggs advice here, no dis-respect to anyone else either.

Perhaps you might want to double-check your software settings for your ripping prog? There might be something there. If there is a setting you arent sure of you can list it here.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[cdogg]

garebo,
My last post was just to "answer" the question you half-asked when you said, "[blue]I just dont know if a different cable would affect you being able to enable DMA setting[/blue]". DMA can run on either type of cable. I understand your point about some requiring one over the other, but that's not an issue here as you said yourself.


rgstewart,
So as not to run away on a tangent, all of us here do have some follow-up questions for you. Here's what's been summed up in the last couple posts

A) Make sure you check your extraction rates from at least one other software app (Nero, Roxio, etc).

B) Check DMA on the hard drive; it should be enabled

C) Possibly motherboard chip drivers; visit the manufacturer's website

D) Verify whether or not both the CD-ROM and the CD-RW drive are having the same problem. Typically, the CD-RW drive will have faster extraction rates.

E) In case there is some kind of conflict between devices, try disconnecting one of the CD drives from the IDE cable. Then try again with the remaining device.

~cdogg
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[SkipCox]

Some interesting articles;

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q258757/

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q159560/

http://www.liteonamericas.com/us/trouble.htm

"Be sure to enable DMA mode setting on CD-ROM drive or UDMA mode setting on DVD-ROM drive.
You may do so by click " start " -> " Setting " -> " control panel ". Chose CD-ROM from system setting, enable DMA from property page."

http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer...PG_ID=1&AT_ID=6057&PROD_SUB_ID=27&PROD_ID=124

Now as I recall PIO4 transfers data at the same rate as UDMA2; as cdogg states, that shouldn't affect the extraction rate from the Samsung. Lite-On seems to say that dma needs to be enabled for the writer but doesn't sound like the writer is involved in this yet.

I've always enabled dma for all my drives (that support it) and have noticed big differences in data transfer speeds, especially on older processors. That supposedly makes sense as the purpose of dma is to write directly to memory and avoid a trip through the cpu.

But, I don't think that really means anything though...I also haven't used a cd-rom drive for years in anything more modern than a classic pentium running Win95.
Everything else I build uses a dvd-rom, cd-rw drive, or both.

If we believe the problem is not with digital extraction from the Samsung cd-rom then where is the problem?

Swap file on hdd involved in this?
As garebo said, a setting in WinAmp?

"Its certainly safe to take cdoggs advice here,..."

Yes, it is. I'd like to hear more about this.


Skip

http://scc.i8.com

 

[garebo]

To cdogg, i didnt even realize i said that, about 40, 80 pin, and then DMA. Was kind of tongue-in-cheek as, as stated, its neither important on a cdrom nor do they all use DMA setting.
I wont mention DMA again, lol.


Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[rgstewart]

Have an argument, why don't you?!

Anyhoo ... back to the issue at hand. I'm prepared to accept that DMA doesn't necessarily need to 'stick' on the CD drives, hoever ... I can't make it stick on the CD drives either. Each time I check 'enable DMA' for the HDs and reboot they magically uncheck.

The machine is fairly old, so I have NO idea whatsoever about reinstalling chipset drivers (don't have any). I don't know what make or mode the motherboard is, and wouldn't have a notion where to start looking for downloads.

Any suggestions for identifying the MB manufacturer and model?

 

[cdogg]

There are utilities out there like [navy]Belarc Advisor[/navy] or [navy]Sisoft Sandra[/navy] that can give you more information.

Also don't forget the other two suggestions above (D, E).

This site is a source for discussion and learning, as well as "peer support". Therefore, don't take offense if a problem starts a discussion among members...they are still going to help you as well. Everyone benefits that way.

~cdogg
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[garebo]

Thats right, we werent arguing, we were talking and learning. Its very difficult to do this when we all have slightly different names for things and use different words for the same thing. Add this to the fact that we arent present to see the parts, all working blind, its a wonder we do so well.
And those that know more than others, like cdogg, are usually very kind when telling us we are out to lunch, lol.
I certainly took no offence and i see that cdogg didnt either. He was only trying to get it thru our heads that DMA was not needed or able to be enabled.

So, like cdogg said, back to d and e :

D) Verify whether or not both the CD-ROM and the CD-RW drive are having the same problem. Typically, the CD-RW drive will have faster extraction rates.

E) In case there is some kind of conflict between devices, try disconnecting one of the CD drives from the IDE cable. Then try again with the remaining device.



Good advice + great people = tek-tips

 

[ceh4702]

Try enabling it in the BIOS FIRST.

If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[cdogg]

enabling what?

~cdogg
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[rgstewart]

I know that both CDROM and CD-R are working fine ... no problems with either. I have also been scouring the BIOS for options to enable DMA for the 2 HDs ... there is no option. I can set the PIO, number of cylinders, etc etc, but can't enable DMA access. The only other reference to DMA I can find in the BIOS is where it says that DMA channels 0 to 9 are reserved for PnP devices.

I'm more interested in the driver update recommendation - I'll check out some of the utilities mentioned and see what happens then.

 

[LloydSev]

What is the make and model of your motherboard?

We can easily point you in the right direction for the chipset drivers if you can come up with that.

Computer/Network Technician
CCNA