Ebonics anybody? 3

[ToniL]

As I read the "Hinglish" thread, I was compelled to start a thread to recognize another "language", or misuse of language; Ebonics. I hear that there are high schools and colleges actually teaching this stuff to our kids, who will eventually wind up running our nation and its businesses. Now, let's take a good look at the word: Ebony=Black and Phonics=speech or words. Meaning that this whole thing is about teaching people to "talk Black", or for lack of a more appropriate phrase, ghetto slang. This puts the nation's Black youth at an even further disadvantage than they are already at by not teaching them proper English and its uses. This is not the language that anyone will hear in a boardroom, or on Capitol Hill, so why "teach" it?

Do I speak Ebonics? Yes, I do... As a Black woman, I need to be able to be an articulate speaker and prove my intelligence at work, but also to "kick it at home" with the brothas and sistas where I'm from. It's important for me to do and be both. I do this so as not alienate anyone whom I work with or chill with. There is a time and place for everything, and Ebonics should not be allowed in the workplace; unless you're a rapper, then it's O.K.

That said, I don't think there is a proper way to speak badly, and to teach that garbage in school is to further widen the gap that society made.

Just my humble opinion,
Peace...

Toni L.

 

[Dimandja]

>I suspect that once a language like Ebonics starts getting the establishment seal of approval by being taught, it will be abandoned by the next generation, who will devise their own to differentiate themselves from their 'square' elders - infra dig, daddio ?

That's true if you consider Ebonics to be slang -- a common mistake. Ebonics is a dialect, not slang that youth use to be hip.
But I guess, the devil is in the details. Like any other dialect, Ebonics has its own share of slang.

Distinguishing these various forms of the English language is where many of us in this thread got thoroughly lost. When you hear rappers, they are usually using a form of slang, not plain Ebonics.


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[craigsboyd]

...not plain Ebonics

Do you happen to have a link to a list of what you would consider to be plain Ebonics rather than slang?

http://www.sweetpotatosoftware.com

 

[Dimandja]

Plain:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Black English

Slang:

http://www.screamingpickle.com/members/gangsta/gangsta_shih.htm

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[tsdragon]

Whew! Looks like I came in on the tail of a long, heated discussion. For the most part I agree with ToniL (and many others) that Ebonics should not be taught in schools, nor do I think it should it be used to teach proper English, as the school board apparently intended. Using a person's native language to teach them to speak a foreign language is one thing (hey, they did it in my German classes), but Ebonics is NOT a foreign language, it's a dialect. I just can't fathom how using badly formed and mis-pronounced English is supposed to help children learn how to speak properly formed and properly pronounced English. The closest analogy I can come up with at the moment is using Alchemy to teach children Chemistry and Physics. The two are too similar and yet at the same time to different to make them compatible in a classroom environment.

Years ago when my daughter was very young we lived in a "predominantly black" neighborhood in downtown Washington, DC. (I put that in quotes because, to be precise, we were the only white people for several blocks in any direction. The area is an older neighborhood but not quite "ghetto", so we didn't have any real problems. How this relates it that my daughter, then in first or second grade, would come in from playing with her neighborhood friends still speaking Ebonics (or something similar) like she did when she was playing. This was something I simply did not approve of (I like the English language too much). My ruling, strictly enforced, was that it was OK for her to talk any way she wanted when she was playing with her friends, but when she was in the house, or out around other adults, she should speak properly, the way she was taught. I didn't want her being treated poorly simply because of the way she spoke. That attitude worked out well: and she eventually stopped speaking Ebonics entirely, except for a few expressions that have stuck in her vocabulary. Schools have historically had the same attitude: speak however you like at home, but speak properly in class. It's worked fine so far.


Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[KenCunningham]

For what it's worth, it's not necessarily to be hip that such dialects/languages are used. Often they are a concious effort on the part of a particular group to hide the meaning of what they are saying from those they consider oppressors. Certainly this can be applied to the teen-parent relationship, but the technique has been used by political, labour and religious groups for a very long time.

 

[ToniL]

Ken,

I wouldn't excactly say that's true. There are words that Black people say that Whites don't understand, but it's not to be sneaky. Take for instance the word "ashy". Black people get out of the shower, and we need to put lotion on our skin because we're "ashy". White people do the same because they have "dry skin". I said that word around some White people that I work with, and they looked at me like, HUH?

What I disagree with is standard English being taught as a 'second' language... That's what this entire thread is about, but it seems to have gotten away from that point...