Ebonics anybody? 3

[ToniL]

As I read the "Hinglish" thread, I was compelled to start a thread to recognize another "language", or misuse of language; Ebonics. I hear that there are high schools and colleges actually teaching this stuff to our kids, who will eventually wind up running our nation and its businesses. Now, let's take a good look at the word: Ebony=Black and Phonics=speech or words. Meaning that this whole thing is about teaching people to "talk Black", or for lack of a more appropriate phrase, ghetto slang. This puts the nation's Black youth at an even further disadvantage than they are already at by not teaching them proper English and its uses. This is not the language that anyone will hear in a boardroom, or on Capitol Hill, so why "teach" it?

Do I speak Ebonics? Yes, I do... As a Black woman, I need to be able to be an articulate speaker and prove my intelligence at work, but also to "kick it at home" with the brothas and sistas where I'm from. It's important for me to do and be both. I do this so as not alienate anyone whom I work with or chill with. There is a time and place for everything, and Ebonics should not be allowed in the workplace; unless you're a rapper, then it's O.K.

That said, I don't think there is a proper way to speak badly, and to teach that garbage in school is to further widen the gap that society made.

Just my humble opinion,
Peace...

Toni L.

 

[ZoomerZ]

Ebonics anybody?
O, yeah, sista!
You should see my blonde/blue all American girl coming home Will Smith style (thanks to Fresh Prince rerun) and body slamming me and asking me to "take it outside"...(I have to wipe my tears, ILMAO)
And does this girl RAP!
And she is the girliest girl ever and never been tomboy in her life!
But when it comes to Ebonic she is losing it!!!
Imagine the power?

So? What is it? I don't know but I am totally agree with you that if people knew place and time for everything - world could be a FUN place.

 

[MakeItSo]

I don't think there is a proper way to speak badly

Hmm. You mean a proper way with respect to "being precise", to "being grammatically correct" or rather to "not being insultive"?

Although I agree in most cases, I would object to the first option. Being from a small German village, I am used to both sorts of people: those using more or less proper "high German", as well as those using their regional dialect.

I am trying to keep my dialect much alive as possible. Some things are a lot easier (and preciser) to express in dialect than in high German, especially when trying to express emotions.

I know, that german plays a bit of a special role here, since our "dialects" can almost be considered different languages!
So, I am not sure about how much this is also valid for "Black" language or comparable slangs.

I would not use either when writing. But I think, these slangs keep language alive.

However:

to teach that garbage in school is to further widen the gap that society made

Fully agreed on that! That's not what school is here for.

[blue]An eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind. - "Mahatma" Mohandas K. Gandhi[/blue]

 

[Dimandja]

I think "Ebonics" is a very interesting and worthy of study variation on the English language. Unfortunately, this language is often misinterpreted as filthy -- with words like "ho" taking front stage.

It is possible to speak "black" without using any curses or bad words. Bad words are bad no matter what language they appear in.

As for "black" grammar, well, every language has its own rules. It's not possible to use "Ebonics" while keeping the regular grammatical structure -- it will not sound right.

Many gangsta rappers are not doing "Ebonics" any favors at all.

 

[TroyMcClure]

I agree that it shouldn't be taught in schools, but I look at it as sort of a humorous thing when I hear it at work.

Now, I don't mean to be "playa-hatin'", but I sit next to a black woman who is an SAP consultant. Very good at the job, but when she gets on the phone with her "sista's"--the rest of us (mostly white, conservative males) have to chuckle. And she is a good sport about it--she plays it up to an exaggerated pitch to really get our goat.

I think as long as we can all agree that it's not a 'true' language, but more of a cultural dialect, then I think it's no harm done as long as all of our children learn proper english.
--T

 

[ZoomerZ]

Humans are suck up to juicy, funny and such...why not?:-D

 

[wuneyej]

I'm not sure if Ebonics and Black English are the same thing, but I do recall a couple of linguists at university who would argue, with passion, that Black English was a true language. And no, neither professor was black.

Like Dimandja said, it's not made up soley of curse words. Watching reruns of "Fresh Prince" and "Martin" wouldn't provide the viewer with a significant exposure.

 

[ToniL]

wuneyej,

Ebonics and Black English are the same thing, take a look at the root of the word... And I can do the "SLANG THANG" with the best of them, but can also converse with people on the "other" side without looking like an idiot. All I'm saying is teach people the right way to speak, and if they mess it me and go slang, then it's by choice, and not because they don't know any better.

Peace,
Toni L.

 

[TroyMcClure]

But I'm sure that within 'Ebonics', there would be widespread disagreement amongst factions--you'd have 'West Coast Ebonics', East Cost, Southern, etc.

Many of the phraaes, pronunciations, etc, do vary between the above mentioned and other regions, and I'm sure there is some often bitter rivalry as to which region coined which phrase, whose phrase for some particular thing (dare I say 'thang'?) is better, etc, etc.

For instance, when one is "preparing to" [do something], the Southern (ebonics) term is a thorough trashing of the southern (rural) term "fixing to"--and it becomes "Finta", as in "We finta go to Billy's crib", but I've rarely heard west-coasters use that. I'm sure there are numerous examples of such.
--T

 

[Dimandja]

>But I'm sure that within 'Ebonics', there would be widespread disagreement amongst factions--you'd have 'West Coast Ebonics', East Cost, Southern, etc

As with any language, you're bound to find regionalities, accents, and even local dialects of "Ebonics".

Also, I think "Ebonics" is sometimes confused with plain slang.

 

[Dimandja]

Press 'Submit' too soon.

I have heard people speak using slang words, and convince themselves that they were speaking "black". This is one of the reasons why I think "Ebonics" should be available as a course.

Many people simply don't know what Ebonics is at all.

 

[ToniL]

Troy,

LOL... Actually, it's "finna" or "fitna"... But you're right, I just disagree with this sort of thing being taught in schools, because as you say, who's to say that the teacher's way is the right way? Like when White people try to use ghetto slang, it just does NOT sound right; either the inflections of their voices are not right, or they enunciate too much, or any number of things that would make an already touchy thing even touchier. I just think that the urban slang thang should stay where it is and has no place in corporate America, which is what will end up happening if it is taught that it's ok to speak that way. My brother, in fact, tells me that I "talk White" and that I've turned in my "Ghetto Pass". So I tell him that I make 87K a year talking White, and if he would rather be Ghetto Fabulous then he is destined for a life of "Is that for here or to go?" I guess the bottom line is to PREPARE urban kids for life or employment in suburbia, don't set them up to fail, while at the same time remembering that "When in Rome..." you know the rest...

Peace,
Toni L.

 

[ToniL]

Dimandja,

Ebonics suggests that it's OK to say, "When IS we goin' ta lunch?" or "My 'puter be messin' up alla time." Now, those two statements I just wrote are not riddled with slang, but are "Ebonically correct". Now, if I were to take an Ebonics quiz, I would pass because I messed those two statements up properly? When have you heard an interviewer speak in such a way? Do you hear people in boardrooms speak that way? Now, George Bush and Jesse Jackson will make up words in a heartbeat, but that does not make it right... Ebonics is not a language worth teaching, and it helps NO ONE...

Peace,
Toni L.

 

[ZoomerZ]

Oh, ToniL, it was bothering me for a while. After summer camp my daughter said about a girl that "she is so ghetto"
I frawn and asked her where is this came from? She said her coach using it. Coach is black young woman. Half of the camp where black kids. So it was very confusing for my 10 y/old to understand that you can use it IF you are black and IF you are not - it is not appropriate. Do you know the way to better explain WHY to a small kid? Thanks

 

[ToniL]

Zoomer,

With small children, fortunately, they know nothing of race or racial inequality, which are 'learned'. I am quite sure there was no malice in your daughter's use of the word, because she heard it somewhere else and used it. As far as teaching her that the use of the word is inappropriate, just tell her what I told my daughter, "It's a bad word, and don't use it." My husband is White so you KNOW my daughter is confused, LOL... Just kidding, but I am more inclined to raise my daughter as the Black woman she will grow to be, and that means she has to be taught that certain things are inappropriate until she is better equipped mentally to understand why.

Peace,
Toni L.

 

[CajunCenturion]

So it was very confusing for my 10 y/old to understand that you can use it IF you are black and IF you are not - it is not appropriate. Do you know the way to better explain WHY to a small kid?

I think the problem is in the premise. It should not be appropriate to use it. Period.

Rather than try to justify the coach's comments because of race, show that coach is using inappropriate terminology.

Good Luck
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[ZoomerZ]

And make her assume that her favorite for 5 years coach is using unappropriate terminology? I would think twice on that.But thanks anyway, anymore thoughts?

P.S. And yes ofcourse she was using it giggling while IM to her friend online.

 

[CajunCenturion]

If you, as her parent, believe that her coach is using inappropriate language, then it, in my opinion, is your duty as a parent to teach that lesson.

If, on the other hand, you believe that the coach's terminology is acceptable, then you must have a reason for feeling that way, so it should not be problem to share that reasoning with your child.

Good Luck
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[ToniL]

Zoomer,

Either you can tell her that it's inappropriate, or you can say nothing and allow her to continue to use the word, and someone ELSE will tell her that it's inappropriate, and they may not be as pleasant as you would be. Regardless of whether or not her coach is her favorite coach, if the coach uses inappropirate language and a child picks it up, then the child should be told that the word(s) are wrong and that the coach should not have used it. Then the coach should be spoken to as well.

Peace,
Toni L.

 

[Dimandja]

After mulling over the question for a while, I decided my child should take up "basket weaving" over "Ebonics" in school. Ebonics has no practical use, except perhaps in certain Hollywood movies? Talking of which, do they hire Ebonics speakers to pen up those scripts, or do the actors improvise?