Discriminatory Help 10

[BJCooperIT]

I am going to duck before I say this too loudly. Do those of you in the USA remember the protests against import cars because of the jobs that were lost at the U.S. Steel mills? Well, it occurred to me that there is a high potential that we here at Tek-Tips are providing help and solutions to the very same folks that have those offshore jobs we have been discussing lately.

Example:
I might have gotten a particular job, but it was sent overseas. "Mohan" gets this cheap labor job in his country.

"Mohan" needs help and posts the question on a thread here at TT.

I answer "Mohan's" question. He is now successful in his job, helping to insure he keeps his job.

Questions
Do you help under this circumstance? How do we maintain our professional integrity and help those that need it, if we suspect we may be hurting ourselves?

Please be kind. I answer all questions I am qualified to answer without regard to the apparent nationality of the poster.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[chiph]

I can't tell if "Mohan" is working in the US or working for an offshored contract just by reading his post. So I answer the question (unless it falls into one of my personal "I don't answer that kind of question" categories).

Chip H.


If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[carrr]

Due to the somewhat anonymous nature of Tek-Tips handle system, I would think it might be hard to thoroughly discriminate. I mean, "Mohan" could be short for "Morris Hancock" from Lower Hogwaller, Alabama just as easily as it could be anything else.
Personally, I tend to withhold assistance more from posters whom I've historically seen to be rude, lazy, or the quintessential "taker."

 

[wbg34]

Interesting question BJCooper,
Remember one thing about those protests though. They were against the Companies that were causing the job losses. Not against the workers in those companies. Boycotts and protests against those companies did effect those employees, but they were not the target of them.

If anything should be done to protest the losses from outsourcing, then it should be against the companies that are outsourcing. It shouldn't be against workers who perform the outsourced work. After all they are merely trying to do what everyone else here is. Survive.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Excellent question BJCooperIT.

But I wonder if it does not hold true even here at home. You neighbor, or best friend, who is also in IT, is struggling looking for a job. The questions that we answer may be for the underqualified individual who across town is keeping that job for which your neighbor is the better qualified person.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BJCooperIT]

Let me be a bit clearer. I know a gentleman from one of the overseas countries whose name is "Mohan". Sometime the TT name combined with weak English skills is a strong clue that the poster is not from the U.S. Other times there are phrases that indicate that English is not the posters primary language. Take, for example, posts that start "Dear Friend".

There was a question in the Oracle fora yesterday where this disturbing question came into my head. I pushed it away and posted an answer. Now I find myself wondering how the rest of you handle this situation.

CajunCenturion,
You are so right. However, there are few clues to discern our "next-door-neighbors".

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[sleipnir214]

During a conversation I had last December with a member of TT management, I found out that there has been an occasional problem with entire organizations using Tek-Tips to answer customer questions.

If you suspect that someone is abusing the good graces of his fellow TT members, redflag the post with a verbose explanation.

TT management has the ability to lock a member's account as well as lock out an organization's entire IP address range. As I recall, there is a company in India, the entire IP address range of which can no longer access the site.


Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[Rhea737]

We are all grunts in the trenches doing our best to do a good job.

I have appreciated the help that I have received from some of the "Mohans" out there.

And I certainly would not want them to discriminate against me because I am an American.

I agree with wbg34.

 

[carrr]

BJCooperIT,

<Still laughing at the &quot;Dear Friend&quot; reference.>

Agreed. But, &quot;sometime&quot; is where I get hung up.
Sure, I can think of several members who I interact with regularly who seem to fit the category you're talking about. Other times, who's to say?
It seems so iffy. I could be doing the guy up the hall from me's job for all I know with some of the posts I answer. I'd hate to think that I was denied help because the guy on the other end was thinking that by withholding assistance he might accelerate the outsourcing of my job.

 

[sleipnir214]

wbg34:
Sure, we're all trying to survive. But that doesn't mean I have to make it easier for the other guy.

Otherwise, I may as well just crawl into the lion's mouth when he looks at my hungrily.


Want the best answers? Ask the best questions:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

TANSTAAFL!!

 

[BJCooperIT]

wbg34
You have a point, however, the ironworkers were not directly enabling their Japanese counterparts to keep their jobs. We might be.

Sleipnir214,
Oh my stars!!!! Leave it to someone to figure out how to make a buck off of people's good will. We have a free give-and-take of technical help and they base a whole business on it while we do the work!

Carrr,
I agree that the &quot;golden rule&quot; should apply here. One of the most valuable posters in the Oracle fora is from the Ukraine and many of us owe him a debt of gratitude.

The question bubbles to the top of my consciousness mostly when it is blatantly obvious that the poster is obviously unskilled and is not from the U.S.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[carrr]

BJCooperIT,

&quot;The question bubbles to the top of my consciousness mostly when it is blatantly obvious that the poster is obviously unskilled and is not from the U.S.&quot;

You've hit upon MY personal bigotry...and I think that I tend practice my discrimination based on this trait often. Whether I think they're from around the globe or down the street, I pull back from the poster who clearly is in the wrong place in a &quot;Technical Work Forum&quot; whether their name is Tim, Tam, or Tawombi.

I can appreciate where you come from with the question you've posed, though.

 

[SemperFiDownUnda]

CajunCenturion has hit this directly on the head here, star for you.

I help people because it is the right thing to do. I'm more likely to loose a position to someone that lives down the street then someone that lives offshore. I've infact helped friends get positions I was also going for. I've also got one company to realise that the project they wanted to hire me for needs to be reexamined because at the interview it was obvious that what they thought they wanted and want they needed where 2 different things thus I talked myself out of a position I was almost 100% assured of getting.

If I base decisions off the fact that that it might adversely effect me then I don't think I would like myself. One thing about human nature is our ability to look beyond our self preservation and self intrest and put ourselves at risks for others. This could be as minor as helping a little old lady you don't know across the street when you are late to laying your life on the line for a complete stranger. This is what really defines us humans over all but 2 or 3 animals of our world.

 

[BJCooperIT]

A star for SemperFiDownUnda! Well said.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[strongm]

>is not from the U.S.

Cajun and Semper are right; what's this got to do with anything? If there's a problem answering non-US posts (however you identify that), then what are you doing somewhere like tek-tips?

 

[BJCooperIT]

strongm,
Did you read any of my posts?
I participate in Tek-Tips because I choose to.
I provide answers to anyone who asks.
I ask questions to see how folks deal with problems.
Period.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[DrJavaJoe]

When it gets to the point that I have to worry about my job because I helped someone from overseas then I believe it's time to find a new career. I believe when you bring a group of scientist together with common interest that for the most part they could care less about borders, they love the science and love to brainstorm or just talk about it. Hell for most of us we can't go home and talk to our spouses or other friends about work, so TekTips provides us with that forum. The more the merrier.

 

[MakeItSo]

Hi folks!
Semper: Well said indeed!
Strongm: &quot;I provide answers to anyone who asks.&quot;
- Yepp! But if anyone asked for something like &quot;How do I write a program that will earn me a million&quot; - I would not post the code! (Although I would probably post a thought - if the poster's smart enough to figure out what to program then, he deserves his million!)

My last sentence states what I think: None of the helpful posters here in Tek-Tips actually endanger their future job, since they are apparently more experienced and inventive than the one posting for help. And any HR manager can figure out in a minute.

Although I must admit that I'm not half as experienced as many of the VIP (very important posters) here - perhaps it's because I'm from overseas? :-D

 

[ttmac]

In the organisation where I work we have experienced the same problems: - large contracts being outsourced to offshore consultants.

This has had a detrimental effect on the IT division within the organisation. Moral is down due to the fact that new and cutting edge projects are not being given to us and we are not given the opportunity to improve our skills set. This generates a Catch 22 type scenario – the next contract that is awarded we are told that we do not have the necessary skills and the contract is outsourced. We are left playing catch-up and performing maintenance for previous projects.

Other postings within the forums have also hit on some of the problems that plague our organisation e.g. loyalty. But what employers often overlook is that loyalty is a 2-way street. An organisation must make an investment into their employees to reap a return. This in turn engenders loyalty and other goodwill feelings in the employee and both sides will be happier (in theory anyway). Sorry for going a little bit off topic here.

Personally, I try to improve my own skills in my own time and view the likes of Tek Tips as an ideal learning ground. I help where I can (and have the time) and learn in the process or I gain knowledge through reading the postings of others. I have posted when stuck and have found this to be an invaluable resource.

Yes, I would be concerned that through posting here that I might be affecting my career opportunities. Yes, I am concerned that through posting here and in other forums that I may be assisting those who have the lucrative consultancy positions and to whom my organisation has awarded contracts. Yes, I am concerned that the consultant sitting next to me on twice the salary is doing work that I can do and that I may have in fact already done for him/her through forums.

And yes, I am concerned that the organisation I work for has awarded contracts to offshore consultants, but what can I do about this? Not much, I think. Living here in Ireland and working alongside consultants from large multinationals (including U.S. multinationals) is a concern but at this stage I believe is a fact of life. No matter where we are, we are going to be met with this sort of problem.

Tek Tips is invaluable to me, as it is to others.

Tek Tips is GLOBAL. As can be seen from the postings of others we are from everywhere - Ireland, England, the Ukraine, the United States and many other countries. With the Internet all borders are gone. We are a global community.

As SemperFiDownUnda has said “I help people because it is the right thing to do.”

On a final note, You or I are as much at risk from the person down the road as we are from the “Offshore Consultants”.

Tom.

 

[GRMorris]

Greetings, I will add my opinion although it reflects that which has already been said.

I would imagine that most us feel we get just as much out of TT (if not more) as we put in. The people you help may possibly be performing a job which you yourself went for, but it should make little difference.

The employee themself is not to blame for outsourcing (whether you find this acceptable or not), it is down to the employer.

There are times when someone with questionable knowledge is attempting a task beyond their skill set, and they really need some help. Giving this person help may possibly allow them to &quot;bluff&quot; their way out of the situation but I would like to think an employer would spot this.