DELL 6

[jlockley]

I am thinking of getting out of the game of building my own computers. Mine is about twenty years old with case replaced here, memory there and drives or CPU and MoBo somewhen else. Right now the power supply fan doesn't seem to be doing it's duty.

My machine is probably AMD (I have never had complaints) on probably an ASUS mobo with about 500 mg ram, which is enough, since aside from some web, there are no graphic or multi media demands..all word processing, data bases, etc. Lots of small apps. Two drives 80g each with os/programs and data backup on the first in three partitions, Data, data bases and backups from the program files on the second. No biggie.

W2k.

Looking at some of the DELL deals and liking what I see. Wouldn't mind an educated opinion or two, since this is the most educated and at times opinionated lot I have run into on these matters.

This does not need to be a high end machine. I would like more memory, and I do tinker. (It's all Lego to me - Tinker toys with a screen) XP better?

It would be hunkey dorey if I could just transfer the data and database drive over to the new machine as a slave, but I am wondering how much trouble windows would cause if I try. (Xp or 2k).

This has been a miserable year for downtime, and with prices where they are....well, any input will be appreciated.

 

[jlockley]

Yeah, or I could just go buy a case, memory, a new cpu and spend some time on the floor with a screwdriver.

 

[LWComputingMVP]

Dell is probably one of the best sources of pre-made computers. That doesn't mean they are 100% rock solid and the best company on the planet - they definitely have their issues... but in general, I think you'll find FAR more DO Buy a Dell then DON'T buy a dell (and probably a sizable amount of indifference as well).

That said, I tend to recommend, if you know what you're doing (with hardware), that you're economically better off building it yourself. You have control over all the parts, you don't have really good centralized hardware support, but that's the trade off - you know what you're doing anyway, so that's not a big deal (usually). Dell cases are usually cramped and though they are designed well in most instances with easy to access component areas, they don't have much in the way of expansion space (especially for drives). In addition, while they still use many "standard" components, there are a few that can be troublesome to replace if and when they fail, like the motherboards and sometimes the power supplies.

For Joe User who's more likely to buy a new computer than a second hard drive, get a Dell. For the guy with tech skills, build your own. The exception to this is laptops - there are some companies that will come close to letting you build your own laptop... and while I'll admit I've thought about them for myself, for almost anyone else, buying a laptop should involve a major name brand with an established reputation and a MINIMUM 3 year warranty on the laptop (they are subject to more abuse in travel and related circumstances and are thus more susceptible to failure which is why the 3 year warranty should be considered a must have) Desktops, since they are essentially large sets of legos, if you buy new, I typically recommend 1 year warranties. Odds are, if the part fails after a year, you can get a newer, faster, better one to replace it for a relatively minimal amount of money.

 

[LWComputingMVP]

One other thing, I know I touched on this in your other question, but I'll say it again and try to elaborate -

RAM - get more. I know your described usage and from what I understand, I would say you have a *little* excess (again based on your usage) in what you have with 2000. But for XP, 512 is what I know consider MINIMUM for an effective system. For you, I'd probably bump that to between 768 and 1024 MB of RAM. Since most systems come with Dual Channel RAM nowadays, or at least the ability to use Dual Channel RAM, I would recommend getting a system with 2x512 MB sticks of RAM for a total of 1 GB. That should be sufficient for your described use.

Note: if you plan to go to VISTA (it's nice - just set it up yesterday) DOUBLE that RAM amount and make sure you have a graphics card capable of playing games (doesn't have to be too fancy - $50 nVidia GeForce or ATI Radeon will likely suffice.

Also, buy online from

http://www.newegg.com

- at least for most things - some of the best prices available (when you factor in company reputation - there are cheaper, but you almost have a 50/50 chance of being ripped off from those other companies. Newegg, by MOST (VAST majority) is reliable and won't rip you off.

Final thought -

EVERYONE has issues. The best companies will have instances where they or their products let you down. The WORST companies will have instances where they or their products work EXTREMELY well for you. The idea is reduce the odds of a headache... or nightmare. I think, using Dell and/or Newegg, you have lower odds than most other companies out there.

 

[cdogg]

Yes, we can be an opinionated bunch at times! But come on, what do you expect when a question like this is asked?


If you dig deep enough, you will find dozens of threads in the last year about Dell vs. HP, or retail vs. do-it-yourself. I imagine the "opinions" here haven't changed much. Personally, I don't think there's a wrong option.

If you're looking for a little excitement in the process, nothing tops doing it yourself. It can be a bit more on the pricey side, but you get to pick the brands, models, and best of all, the case. Buying retail has the tendency to leave a plain taste in your mouth, especially when it seems like everyone has one.

Everything else about the comparison has been said a thousand times in this forum, so I think I'll just leave it at that. Happy hunting with whatever path you choose...

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[Johnthephoneguy]

One good thing about buying a new dell, if you catch them at the right time you can get a decent flat panel display very cheap with the computer.

JohnThePhoneGuy

"If I can't fix it, it's not broke!

 

[xit]

I have found that all the major brands for the most part, are good systems, that being said, here are my arguments against them: proprietary parts! You can end up with problems trying to replace everyday parts because many of these manufacturers want you to use only parts supplied by them. This can become costly & can even involve your ability to reinstall your operating system without their proprietary parts. I personally prefer building a system as you have control over every aspect of your machine.

just my input

xit

 

[macten88]

You have W2000, so I would build/upgrade my next pc. I plan on using W2000 for at least a few more years. I built mine over 5 years ago and it's still going strong.

Whatever you buy will probably contain proprietory parts. If you build it yourself, you can stick to ATX industry standards.

 

[jlockley]

That's exactly what I hoped for. It's the opinions that I needed..as they are generally pretty well founded on experience. Opinions=good.

I am actually thinking less excitement for a change. I have rebuilt my current model from an AT in the eighties, I think, and there are always issues. Currently I have the case off because the power supply fan doesn't seem to be doing a good job. Haven't checked temp, but I think without case fan on, it's ok.

One of the enticing thoughts about the less exciting option is the smaller footprint. I have also considered just a new case (New Egg, Deal News, Tiger)But the ASUS mobo I have is pretty large and probably requires another high tower.

Tiger has a pretty sexy HP for about 299 after rebates -- runs out today. One of the things I was thinking is the question of vista compatability. The newer, cheaper models come with XP (not pro, I think) vista upgradable. I don't think the HP product is vista compatible. Not that getting the first output of MS products is ever a good idea.

Opinions is what I came for. Would love some more.

 

[jlockley]

OK, again would like your opinion on this. (I think Tiger is pretty decent)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications//SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2479433&Tab=2&NoMapp=0

HP dx2200 Intel Pentium 4 524 3.06GHz(HT) / 512MB DDR2 / 160GB SATA II HDD / DVD-ROM/CD-RW / Integrated ATI Graphics / 10/100 LAN / NO Floppy / Windows XP Professsional SP2 / Microtower Desktop PC

Power Management

Power
250 Watt
Dimensions

Width
6.89"

Height
13.9"

Depth
16.38"
Communications

Data Transfer Rate
10Mbps
100Mbps

Interface Type
RJ-45 - Ethernet Connector

Chipset
Realtek RTL8100C

Communications Description
Integrated LAN Support
Media Ports

PS/2 Keyboard Connectors Learn More
1

PS/2 Mouse Connectors Learn More
1

Serial Communication Ports
1

Parallel Ports Learn More
1

USB Ports
6

LAN Ports
1

Audio Out Jacks
2

Line In Jacks
1

Microphone Jacks
2
Processor Specifications

Processor Interface
Socket LGA775

Processors Supported
1

Additional Technologies
HyperThreading Technology

Processor Speed
3.06GHz

Processor Class
Pentium® 4

Processor Brand
Intel®

Processor Number
524

Processors Onboard
1
Hard Disk Drive Specifications

Capacity
160GB

Interface
SATA II

Speed
7,200RPM
Optical Drive Specifications

Interface
EIDE

Optical Drive Type
DVD-ROM / CD-RW Combo
Mouse Specifications

Connection Type
USB

Buttons
3

Scrolling Capability
Vertical

Mouse Type
Optical
Keyboard Specifications

Connection Type
PS/2

Keyboard Type
Standard
Desktop Specifications

Operating Systems
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Edition SP2

Form Factor
Microtower

Expansion Slots
4

Bays Learn More
2 - 5.25" Drive Bays
1 - 3.5" Drive Bays

Orientations Allowed Learn More
Vertical

Platform Learn More
PC

PCI Slots (Available) Learn More
2

PCI Slots (Total) Learn More
2

Internal Bays Learn More
2 - 3.5" Drive Bays

PCI Express Slots (Total)
2

PCI Express Slots (Available)
2

PCI Express X1 Slots (Total)
1

PCI Express X1 Slots (Available)
1

PCI Express X16 Slots (Total)
1

PCI Express X16 Slots (Available)
1

Available 5.25" Drive Bays
1

Available 3.5" Drive Bays
2
RAM Memory Specifications

Memory Size
512MB

Memory Speed
DDR2 667 (PC2-5300)

Memory Type
DDR2

Maximum Memory Supported
2.0GB

Memory Slots (Total)
2

Memory Slots (Available)
1

Total Memory
512MB
Graphics Specifications

Video Interface
VGA (15-Pin D-Sub)

Maximum Resolution
2048 x 1536

GPU/VPU
ATI Radeon XPRESS 200

Video Memory
up to 128MB Shared Memory

Graphics Description
Integrated Graphics
Audio Specifications

Audio Chipset
Realtek ALC861
High Definition

Audio Description
Integrated Audio

 

[jlockley]

I have tried reaching HP pre sales, who are in or near INdia. I can't understand a thing...rethinking that one.

 

[gbaughma]

I, too, built my own computers for the last 20 years.

When it came time that mine was getting old and slow, I told the mrs. "That's it... I'm just going to order a Dell... and from now on, if something breaks, *THEY* can fix it."

I'm quite happy with it.

The reality of it is, you can't buy the parts and make a machine as inexpensively as as you can buy one from Dell.

Let's face it... when they buy 100,000 hard drives at a time, they get a LOT better deal than I can buying one or two.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly exchanged his dilithium crystals for new Folger's Crystals." -- My Sister
--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[jlockley]

Great point. And there is the vista/xp thing.

 

[Johnthephoneguy]

Something to think about though when buying one, why not at least get the low end Core 2 Duo, it is extremely fast, and while you might not game or anything, the faster you start now the less likely you will have to upgrade in the future.

JohnThePhoneGuy

"If I can't fix it, it's not broke!

 

[BadFrog]

I have sat on both sides of this fence and currently sit in the middle. The last PC purchase for me was a Dell. I still build them quite often although usually not for me. I'm undecided what I will do for my next purchase, which is already overdue.

As far as Dells go, I work on A LOT of them everday. The biggest problems I have seen from the major OEM's out there, (aside from the bad capacitor issue) is cheap power supplies that fail prematurely.

"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy"
Albert Einstein

 

[jlockley]

Well, the offer is gone, and I am very much thinking about just building. What's your experience with HP/Compaq, if you don't mind sharing.

Also, regarding chips: I think I am running on an PIII or so, but not even sure. Could be AMD.

What's the deal with Core 2 Duo? AGain, this is a simple office machine.

 

[cdogg]

As for the Core 2 Duo, you will learn a lot here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/page3.html

Although the article touches on the amazing power differences, it's important to note that this article is 5 months old. Since then, AMD has released newer Athlon X2 models that require a lot less power. Overall however, the Core 2 Duo leads the pack in terms of price and performance for the time being.


Here's the thing. When we suggested building your own, we meant from the ground up. Get a new case, power supply, fans, etc., and finally chuck those old parts that you've been holding on for so long! I'm amazed that you were still using an AT case, but hey, whatever works I guess. Considering that you have an older AMD or P-III, you will notice a huge difference with any processor you choose (X2, P4, or Core 2 Duo).

Even if it's an office PC, the speed of the CPU matters quite a bit. The obvious thing you'll notice is boot time. Perhaps it takes you 5 minutes or so to fully load Windows 2000 right now. Well with a fresh install of XP on one of these bad boys, it'll cut your time down to less than a minute (on my Athlon X2 3800+ that's loaded with junk it still takes less than 45 seconds)! The other thing you'll notice is the ability to run multiple demanding programs at once without slowing the PC down to a crawl. Imagine opening Word/Outlook, burning a DVD, playing music, and surfing the net all at the same time without a single stutter. No way you can do that on an old P-III. Dual-processors (X2, Pentium D, Core 2 Duo) handle this the best.

Honestly though, if you aren't even sure what you have in your system now, then I take it you don't tinker that much. It might just be best in your situation to go with a pre-built system from Dell or HP. It will be cheaper and save you the hassle of getting all the new hardware to play nice together (personally I enjoy the challenge, but that's just me!).

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[jlockley]

It's an ATX case. Sorry. Actually I do tinker a lot, but I have a rotten memory. (obviously). With three desktops in three different locations, I can never remember which is which. The AMD is in the emergency desktop.

Anyhow, for what it's worth, MoBo's an ASUSTeK Computer INC. TUSL2-C REV 1.xx Bus Clock: 133 megahertz, cpu is PIII.

Loading now is under two minutes, but you know it's never fast enough. Remember this is a free standing machine, and I have cut start up programs to a minimum, preferring to open what I need when it becomes necessary. All schedulers off, as well save AV.

I understood that you meant from ground up. Just ran through the rain to Central Computers and priced a bare bones system with new case, etc using an Athlon to about $730.

As I said, more than I had intended, but it's a start. (The drives are less than a year old..the fact that this is an ongoing project doesn't mean that all the parts are ancient. As a matter of fact, the oldest piece is the tower, and it's time for that to get smaller..memory will have to be new, as no sd2 in old system.

I am getting that anything new should be 64 bit compatible, even though Vista will run in 32 bit mode. The guys who tried that say there are some stack issues. (I know these people..buy from the often, so they are not trying to sell me a top system..700 isn't that by a long shot).

So if I get the dual core I can put less money into the power system? That saves twenty or so, I guess. I am currently running 500. How is it heat wise?

Good news is that i just figured that I no longer need zip drives. Will get usb floppy. simplify things a lot. Like that.

Also talked to the guy at the dell stand on Market. Interesting that the computers there are cheaper than on the net. A new dell with everything in it would run somewhere in the 570 range, but I couldn't add a second drive without voiding the warranty. I can see why, but it throws some cold water on that option. (I keep data and OS separate).

 

[xit]

If you do some smart shopping & not get in a hurry, you can build a system as cheap or cheaper than the big brands & have a system custom made for you, by you. Check the big sites for their specials, especially now during the holidays, you can score some good buys on parts. I would suggest a new big case with all the bells & whistles you want & go from there.

xit

 

[jlockley]

I would actually like a smaller case, but what do you mean by "big sites?" Comp USA??? or more Dealnews and Newegg?