DELL 6

[jlockley]

I am thinking of getting out of the game of building my own computers. Mine is about twenty years old with case replaced here, memory there and drives or CPU and MoBo somewhen else. Right now the power supply fan doesn't seem to be doing it's duty.

My machine is probably AMD (I have never had complaints) on probably an ASUS mobo with about 500 mg ram, which is enough, since aside from some web, there are no graphic or multi media demands..all word processing, data bases, etc. Lots of small apps. Two drives 80g each with os/programs and data backup on the first in three partitions, Data, data bases and backups from the program files on the second. No biggie.

W2k.

Looking at some of the DELL deals and liking what I see. Wouldn't mind an educated opinion or two, since this is the most educated and at times opinionated lot I have run into on these matters.

This does not need to be a high end machine. I would like more memory, and I do tinker. (It's all Lego to me - Tinker toys with a screen) XP better?

It would be hunkey dorey if I could just transfer the data and database drive over to the new machine as a slave, but I am wondering how much trouble windows would cause if I try. (Xp or 2k).

This has been a miserable year for downtime, and with prices where they are....well, any input will be appreciated.

 

[xit]

Reason for larger case: cooler, accessible when adding new hardware. Might put in a couple fans to keep components cooler. I not talking about a huge case, just a nice mid-size case, one that has some weight to it & room for add-ons. Yes your on the right track about the big sites you listed but there are many more good ones. Check out the local circulars in the sunday paper, go online & look around. You will find some good deals. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the large pc manufactures, they have good product, but nothing is as rewarding as knowing you built a fine system from the ground up.

xit

 

[jlockley]

You kn ow, checking the prices I got down the street, I don't get much better on googling. Tax here stinks. With the AMD AThlon 3200 (vista compatible) the price would go up $20.
Ext. Price
1 Antec SmartCool 92mm Thermally Controlled 16.95
$16.95
Fan


1 Antec TriCool 80mm DBB Case Fan 9.95
$9.95


1 Antec EarthWatts EA500 500 Watt ATX12V v2.0 79.95
$79.95
Power Supply


1 Asus P5L-MX Core2Duo 945G DDR667 1066FSB 89.95
$89.95
A&V&GbE PCI-E MATX


1 D297: 1GB DDR2 533 Memory Module 125.00
$125.00


1 -MS Windows XP PRO SP2b English 1PK W/Upg 147.95
$147.95
Cpn OEM E85-04964


1 #CM20NP Cooler Master Centurion 541 Black 45.95
$45.95
w/o Power Supply


1 System Installation 45.00
$45.00


1 1 Yr Express Replacement Program for System 30.00
$30.00
$0-1499.99


1 Intel P4 524 3.06GHz 1MB 533MHz LGA775 89.95
$89.95
Retail


Sub
Total $680.65
Tax
$55.31
Total
$735.96

 

[LWComputingMVP]

The reality of it is, you can't buy the parts and make a machine as inexpensively as as you can buy one from Dell.

This is true... unfortunately, it's rare that the price Dell gives you would be cheaper (or significantly cheaper) than the cost of parts to build the computer. If you know where to buy, you can usually build a system within 10% of the price Dell would give you ... sometimes cheaper, sometimes more expensive, but rarely by more than 10%.

What's your experience with HP/Compaq, if you don't mind sharing.

I would not recommend them. Recently, I called their support (all be it for a printer/scanner/copier/fax device). The level of knowledge of the support person was appallingly bad. Further, it's been my experience that HP doesn't like to support their products. Meaning, go ahead, by a machine with XP on it from HP. Even if it says it's Vista ready, they will likely refuse to support you because it didn't ship with vista. Dell won't provide GREAT support if it didn't ship with it, but my experience is that they'll make a good faith effort.

 

[jlockley]

I am going more towards the byi mode. The support or pre sales people I got on the phone were an indication.
Looking at the p5L-Mx from ASUX. Problem is it has only two slots, which means I either have to put in the max on RAM now, or have to eat the cost for the 512 or so for now when and if I upgrade.

An ASUS with four slots is 50% more : 129 - not bad, reallly, but with a couple of hundred for ram....
I have gone from about 300 to about 1,000 with a byi.
Discounting Vista may be the answer, but the fact that MS has set a 3 year support end for XP is troublesome.
I seem to remember this happening before. Looking at Dell again.

 

[wahnula]

My contribution to this thread is to ask you NOT to buy from Newegg. Their return policies are inflexible and I could not get any satisfaction climbing their CS ladder, it would have been easy for them to throw me a bone and keep me as a customer, but they chose not to do anything over and above their stated return policy so I am voting with my wallet and boycotting the joint.

Lots of places offer the same or better prices, I have grown to LOVE my locally-owned

http://www.directron.com

as I get everything overnight. I would rather pay the sales tax and keep the money in the state, but you non-Texans can buy w/ no tax just like at Newegg...hey finally a place for you Californians to shop![/rant]

jlockley...glad you decided to BYO. Directron has many barebones (even barebones laptops) if you want some pre-wiring done for you. Check them out, they also have prebuilts.

Tony

 

[paparazi]

Dell possitives:
1)Always great value on packages, that is until you decide to divert from the advertised spec (the upgrades are extautionate)
2) Usually very handsome visually and relatively compact cases.
3)Tried and tested configurations mean good stability and reliability

Now he Negatives:
1) Like I said, expensive upgrades and repairs
2) Many complain about Dells after sales service
3) Because of Dells wide use of proprietory parts and often non compliance with international ATX form factor design, mean "poor upgrade capability" ie: you are often bound to buying replacement parts from Dell, at their over inflated prices.
4) Weak power supplies but to be fair, this is a problem with all pre-built makes. What this means in practice is little headroom for powerful addons like gaming graphics cards etc.
5) Small footprint= limited choice for upgrade components and in Dells case design often means know choice at all due to their unique design.

In short, Dells are great for users who buy/use/dispose but not good for those who may at some future point, wish to addon/upgrade.

One last thing! USB floppy drive??? have you not heard of Flash Pens! you can literally pick up a 128mb USB2 flash pen for $10.
Martin




We like members to GIVE and not just TAKE.
Participate and help others.

 

[jlockley]

I happen to have a usb floppy. My keychain dangles with flashpens. every so often I need to use one floppy.

How much power, actually, would a low endish chip require. I was looking at abut 500, but I think I am over need by a piece.

I keep comparing prices. with luck I would have had a "mid end" machine (Core duo, 1000 mg ddr2 ram, 200 gb, xp pro upgradable, for about 300.

The bare bones I am looking at now with less powerful components is at about 800. (Ram same, no drives, no cd drive, Athlon or Celleron. Low end ASUS board. I have checked out various sites and don't get more than about four dollars difference on the individual components, offset by up to $15 shipping, which would probably push the price pretty near a grand. Even looked at EBay, but that's really scary.

Still tending toward dyi, but.......


Other issue: Asus board has two dimms..which means I either have to go for max memory now or chuck what I buy for about $250 when and if I decide to go vista. (different discussion entirely..on the xp forum). (Some say that Vista needs 2k ram. It has a couple of interesting features. MS is dropping xp support in 3 years. Vista upgrade free or very cheap with XP bought now). Also, t he core duo argument is good. With the lower power it would be meaningful only at home..I don't pay power at work..but could mean a lower power supply, or no? At any rate that posts it over a grand..so I have

....byi over a grand..Probably better

...boxed under 500..with issues?? Of course 500 is only a year of macchiatos, but still, it's real currency.

 

[cdogg]

Here's what I priced out at Newegg:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz LGA 775 Retail
$181.00

MSI 945P Neo3-F Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945P
$77.99

MSI NX7300LE-TD256E GeForce 7300LE 256MB
$61.99

PNY Optima 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR2 533 (PC2 4200) CAS=4
$99.99

Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB SATA 3.0GB/s
$64.99

Decent 400W Mid Tower steel case (I picked APEVIA X-Gear ATXB5KLW-BK 420W 2-80mm fans side & top incl)
$50.00

COOLMAX CM-825-4B 80mm Case Fan (For rear)
$3.09

Windows XP Home Upgrade - Retail @ RoyalDiscount.com
$94.99

Total = 635.00 + shipping (about $40-60)

This configuration gives you your 1GB of RAM plus 4 DIMM slots for memory, a fast CPU, and a price that's comparable to Dell's Dimension E520 at $979, which is the lowest Core 2 Duo option I saw at a quick glance. Of course, this system is priced with 2GB of memory, a DVD burner, and a flat panel monitor. But if those are things you don't need at the present time (can add later), then I'd say the $700 system I priced out above is a better deal!

For the power supply, 400W will be plenty in most situations. It takes more than you probably realize to overstress a 400W PSU.

Wahnula's experience with Newegg is unfortunate. I can't say I've ever had a bad experience to date from Newegg, and I've returned memory, CPU's, and cases for replacement items with no hassles within the first year if there was a problem.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[jlockley]

Gee..Thanks. That's good. Don't need the drive, but do need xp pro. I have been spending the day shopping from a chair..and things are beginning to crystalize.

With the Core2Duo and 1mg it's still 100 below mine before shipping. Really thanks. I am going to go through it and compare it to what I have.

 

[LWComputingMVP]

I have to agree. wahnula's in the minority. I've periodically done research on the vendors I buy from and at places like

http://www.resellerratings.com,

newegg is consistantly rated among the best. That said, EVERY vendor will have the occassional (or more frequent) problem and dissatisfied customer. But newegg is a full point (on a 10 point scale) better rated than directron. This doesn't mean I wouldn't buy from them, but the odds of having a problem should be less with newegg.

And indeed, I've had at least two instances where I needed to return an item - once memory, once two copies of office 2003 (got standard, changed our minds and wanted pro) and didn't have any problem at all. Shipping is typically low and fast. I would say, on average, I buy from them once a month... maybe more.

 

[jlockley]

Question on xp..if you don't mind.

I need pro. I believe all xp can be upgraded to Vista (Pro for a $10 fee), which I would do. I know it's kosher if I get the software with the mobo and cpu and legal if I get it with a power chord.. what's the situation if I am assembling the computer and get the software from someplace like royal?

Thanks.

Interesting case, by the way.. I have figured out that the fanless case ups the price considerably. Also looking at Antec and like what I see.

 

[wahnula]

the odds of having a problem should be less with newegg.

That may be true, but maybe Directron will have someone who will treat a good customer as they should be treated. I have to go OT: After spending tens of thousands of dollars with Newegg since they opened in 2001 they were inflexible on the return of two stinkin' incorrectly-ordered toner cartridges, which had been opened as in I cut the packing tape on the box and took one out, looked at it,saw it was the wrong one, and put it back. Maybe I was unreasonable to expect them to throw me a bone, give me something towards the purchase of the correct ones since I did, after all, buy the dang printer from them but they steadfastly would not give me a dime nor discount on new, correct cartridges.

I spoke with a manager, asked him to look at my account and how much I have spent with them, along with my personal account (they used to be my favorite store too) and make a decision...could they be flexible in their policy at the risk of losing my account? Nope. I meant nothing to them as a customer. Now they mean nothing to me as a store.

Back to the discussion...

Tony

 

[wahnula]

It's something like Maddox's opinion of Sony...

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit

 

[xit]

I have used Newegg & Directron for many years, in my estimation both are excellent. Service from Directron is faster than Newegg for me as I live one state north of Texas, so shipping is almost always 2-3 days. There are other good online stores also, so look around.

okiepc

 

[wahnula]

I guess I am not pimpimg Directron as much as I am dissing Newegg, had to get that rant in and now it's over, I feel better, and while I am a VERY loyal customer if I can save significant coin shopping at low-bidder stores I will use them, great tip from cdogg of

http://www.RoyalDiscount.com

for OEM OSes.

I just need to stay true to my word and not shop Newegg...even if it costs me money and makes me sad sometimes. Principles are like that. I do take advantage of their images, descriptions and reviews...

I shop

http://www.pricewatch.com

and Cnet Shopping:

http://shopper.cnet.com/2001-1_9-0.html?tag=dir

to get a feel for what's out there and sometimes

http://www.buy.com

has REALLY good deals but don't let them sucker you into upgrading shipping, which they do by default.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com

is OK, and don't forget the ubiquitous

http://www.amazon.com

too.

Oh, and don't buy a DELL....lol

Tony

 

[jlockley]

It's done. AMD Athlon, MSI RD489 Neo2-Fi board, 1 gb ram, xp and case w/ 400w psu..Tiger Direct and Buy.com(case only)for about $500 total before $90 or so rebates. Still need a cpu fan and probably one case fan..plus possibly graphics card if mine is still agp. c'est tout.

I can't thank you all enough.

 

[xit]

Good for you jlockley, you will be glad you went this direction & good luck with your build.

xit

 

[jlockley]

Luck's usually the deciding factor. Thanks. Any comments on chip cooling fans? It seems I also need a new video card..
Caught in the crossfire of change here.

 

[wahnula]

Zalman coolers are the quietest and highly regarded. Make sure your vidcard has plenty of RAM, and check this thread for more info: thread602-1281702

Tony

 

[jlockley]

Thanks for the link. Non gamer here, too. What would an adequate low end card be and how much should I not pay?