Corpspeak! 2

[eyeswideclosed]

My company never used it much before but lately I'm hearing "going forward" a lot, this could lead to worse things, like "win-win" or (horrors) "talking points", it's a slippery slope! Like drugs! I must kill it now before it gets bigger! Then we are all doomed! Doomed I say!!

 

[eyeswideclosed]

Maniac, I think you are defending it as an abstract, since you seem to prefer plain english yourself, the problem I have with it is that it seeks to dress up simple things people have said forever to make them appear more complicated or trendy or whatever, I just can't stand it, and I'm not alone.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> What is "win-win" in plain english?
That's a good question, but perhaps we should first ask, "What is plain English?"

Which is more efficient, to say
This is a situation which benefits both of us
or
This is a win/win situation?

There are so many issues undercutting this theme, including the choice of phrase, understanding the denotation of the phrase, as well as the connotation of the phrase.

I agree with TheManiac, and arguably, one of the most important aspects is to understandant the context in which the phrase is used, and how the culture of that context affects the meaning of the phrase.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[eyeswideclosed]

You're all wrong and I'm right.

 

[Scott24x7]

The real essence of Win/Win is NOT in compromise... that's exactly the point. In a compromise, there is an inherent loser, if not both... we are giving up on some part that was important to us before to reach an agreement.

Here's a couple of important parts to consider in Win/Win.

1) We don't have to work to agreement, we need to work to acceptance. Reaching acceptance is FAR easier than reaching agreement. There are many things that I don't agree with, but I accept. (e.g. I don't agree with a 55mph speed limit, but if I don't accept it, I get a ticket. I can choose to ignore it, but that's at my own peril).

2) All of the examples I've read here come from the view of positional bargaining. I give you this, you give me that. I'll trade you this, if you return that. Instead of an approach of discussion of the MERITS. You may persuade me to see that my own position is flawed, by discussing the merits. When we approach an issue based on the merit of the outcome, new possibilities are often discovered.

3) And the key point to win/win can be embodied this way... My wife and I want to watch a movie. I want to watch Shindler's List, and she wants to watch 10 Things I Hate About You. If we have 2 TVs, we could decide to each watch what we want in isolation. This is a compromise, but we both get what we want... Win/Win right? WRONG. That is NOT a win/win situation. The Win/Win is discovered from discussing the other 150 DVDs we have, and finding a single movie that we are both happy to watch... or going to the video store and buying or renting one we both want to see... Win/Win is about finding a solution that meets all the needs of the parties, and often times involves something completely different than what is on the table.
It requires taking a different approach to the problem. In my experience, I have found that there is an intrinsic human behavior that says "Once we find 2 options, we stop looking for more, and we chose from those". I'm not sure what conditioning along the line of our lives causes this, but I have witnessed it time and time again... Henry Ford once said, "Thinking is the hardest work there is, that's why so few people actually do it." (Or something to that effect). Win/Win is about thinking. Its about looking for options that have not yet been considered. And yes, sometimes it does end in a compromise, but before we compromise, I hope we have really vetted what the options are.


Best Regards,
Scott

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, and no simpler."

 

[eyeswideclosed]

Ok what's the difference? Here:
Plain english: we're going to do this a different way now cause that's what the customer wants.
BS corpspeak: we are going to implement a new paradigm shift in order to better incorporate our talking points with our up-valued partner base.
Or some such other crap.
If you can't see that this is evil and must be stopped then you are all doomed...I shall continue my crusade alone..

 

[eyeswideclosed]

Steverino:
"I guess I haven't been subjected to corpspeak yet...:

Exactly why I am doing this! Now you can recognize the telltale signs of the impending invasion when you see it and kill it before it grows!
Welcome to the crusade my brutha!

 

[CajunCenturion]

The difference is that in previous examples, using "corpspeak" actually shortened and simplied the communication, but in your example, it's the reverse. If all "corpspeak" were along the lines of your example, then you wouldn't be alone in your crusade. In reality, that's not the case. Not all corpspeak is so abused.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

Let's go back to your original post in this thread. You brought up three different phrases: "going forward", "win-win situation", and "talking points".

How would you define those three terms, in simple English, more efficiently and without loss of meaning?

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[eyeswideclosed]

Ah but touche' mon capitan:
"going forward" is 4 syllables
while
"from now on" is 3.
So simply saying that it shortens things is not always true.
Anyway that is not the evil purpose of the corpspeakish, it is the continuing bs-itizing of America.

 

[CajunCenturion]

But 'going forward' doesn't necessarily mean 'from now on'. Going forward represents moving in a positive direction along some axis, but that axis is not necessarily time.





--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[eyeswideclosed]

going forward = from now on
win-win situation = good for everybody
talking points = stuff we talk about

as I said before, if you can't see the insidious nature of this invasion then you are all doomed..

 

[CajunCenturion]

Sorry, hit "submit" rather than "preview"

That gets back to my previous comment about understanding the context in which the phrase is said.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

Talking points is not the stuff we talk about, but rather, the points of emphasis. We can talk about lots of things and yet not address the talking points, because we're not addressing the points of emphasis.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Scott24x7]

EWC,

talking points = stuff we talk about

There is a level of emotional maturity that is displayed in "talking points" (though admittidly I am no fan of that phrase) than in "Stuff we talk about" In fact, I'd say "Stuff we talk about" is just as ambiguous as the other phrases you are pointing out.

BS corpspeak: we are going to implement a new paradigm shift in order to better incorporate our talking points with our up-valued partner base.
Or some such other crap.

I'm sorry mate, but your example here, in my view, only proves that you don't understand this. I can see how this may be what you "hear" when someone communicates in a way you don't understand, much in the same way that a teenager hear's from mom or dad "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah". But that does not MEAN that is the message. Your usage in the example above, I'm sorry to say, is simply not how that language gets used. You need to carefully consider and examine the context and sentences that are being used when you don't understand them, rather than accusing those who use them as simply presenting "psycho bable".
Sure, you can chose not to... that is your choice. But I think I can safely say, you will be limiting your ability to comprehend their meaning when they are used, and thereby limiting yourself in ways you may not even be aware of. That's meant to be some constructive feedback for you, not a personal attack.


Best Regards,
Scott

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, and no simpler."

 

[Stella740pl]

Well, I understand why you don't like "talking points" (neither do I), but "stuff (?!!) we talk about (!!!)" is hardly a satisfactory substitute (or what should I say in plain English?). If I had a choice of only those two to use on a meeting at work, I would undoubtfully pick the former.

As for "win-win situation", it may not only mean "good for everybody". It could be "we win in both cases, no matter which one we choose".

I could agree with you on "paradigm shift", though.

 

[sbudzynski]

I feel you have to deal with some people who "like to use big words to sound smart". I don't think the issue here is so much "corpspeak" but dealing with those types of [ANNOYING] people.

----------

Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"

 

[CajunCenturion]

Whether or not that is eyeswideclosed's main issue, it's true that we all have to deal with annoying people everyday.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[eyeswideclosed]

Ok, as long as you all agree with me now..

 

[IknowMe]

It seems the common issue most are expressing here is not whether Corp Speak has a value in the business world but rather that it gets overused in some instances.

1) We don't have to work to agreement, we need to work to acceptance. Reaching acceptance is FAR easier than reaching agreement. There are many things that I don't agree with, but I accept. (e.g. I don't agree with a 55mph speed limit, but if I don't accept it, I get a ticket. I can choose to ignore it, but that's at my own peril).

For example in this scenario it would drive me nuts to hear the policeman describe my adhering to the speed limit as a win-win situation. Which could be argued as foolows (<-typo but I find it fitting as a indavertant pun so it stays), he wins because I adhere to the speed limit and I win because I didn't have to pay a fine. This doesn't however demonstrate a win-win in my book. What I would consider a win-win would be to raise the speed limit limit somewhere between our ideas of what it should be followed by my compliance to the agreed limit. Although, raising the limit may not be determined a win in his book. I wouldn't use win-win to describe an issue of acceptance, but rather call it what it is, acceptance.

So as Cajun said it's definately a perspective issue. So by saying win-win you risk offending whomever your saying it to most instances, which I think creates the argument for both sides.

Hmmm, should I save half of this cake for lunch tomorrow or should I eat the whole thing now? Better yet I'll eat it all now and buy another cake to eat tomorrow. <win-win


Wow, I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time.
I think I've forgotten this before.

 

[sbudzynski]

I shore do!

Them annoying beaches

----------

Steve Budzynski


"So, pass another round around for the kids. Who have nothing left to lose and for those souls old and sold out by the soles of my shoes"