Considering buying POS

[POSMaster]

Hi

I'm considering buying a POS system for my restaurant.
I have around 40 employees.
Any suggestions?
I already took a look at Micro's and Aloha restaurant solutions and i am not at all impressed.
Yesterday I found a small POS company called POSnet -
anybody heard of them?

thanx,
and may the power be with you.

 

[AkamaiAloha]

Micros and Aloha are solid systems. My only knock on them is that they've got that "big company" vibe going on. You know, the kind of treatment you get from the likes of HP or Best Buy or any other huge company? Their attitude often loosely translates to "We're sorry you're not happy, but how much do expect us to care about you, when we could invest the time selling more systems to someone else?"

That's not a reflection of the resellers on here--the guys on this forum are obviously service oriented, since they here, donating their time and skills for free. But the complaint we most often get is that Micros and Aloha feel like they're better suited for bigger, corporate clients, than they are for smaller single or multi-chain stores.


I have heard of POSNet. But I can't provide any specifics.

Some others to check out (with no real comments provided):

Maitre D'
Restaurant Manager
NextPOS

There are an endless number of systems, really. What type of restaurant is this for? Give some more specifics.

 

[DTSMAN]

Not impressed?

What type of features would impress you. If the industry leaders don't have it we will need more info on what you are looking for.

I'll add:

Ciao (spelling (Chow))
Digital Dinning (I reccomend this one for your third choice to investigate)
Positouch

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."

 

[AkamaiAloha]

Bear in mind Bo, sometimes there isn't all that much to be impressed about on the surface (with any of the POS systems). Especially to the end user. I mean, they are all doing the same basic things--sending orders to the kicthen, settling the checks, and reporting. And when comparing any two systems, I can probably find 5 things I like better one system A, and 5 things I like better about B. Again, after seeing 3 or 4 of these demos, the average end user is reaching for aspirin.

A couple of quick thoughts:

1) Investigate the service record of the company or local reseller you buy from. Many people don't consider the fact that--like it or not--you'll be forming a long term business relationship with the company you purchase it from. If you get bad service, even the most feature-rich POS system will have trouble over coming that fact.

2) A lot is possible these days with remote access utilities like PCAW, VNC, and RDC--support for customers located across the country is possible for many things. But nothing beats the ability to have them come onsite in an emergency, or with a complicated problem. Plus, a local vendor has more at stake when it comes to making you happy, than does a company 1000 miles away. Bad word of mouth will catch up with a local guy real quick, and he knows this. This may not be the case if you live in Maine, and the company providing support is in Los Angles.

3) Don't underbuy. This probably the most common mistake. This is a long term investment that can help your bottom line. I've heard too many stories of restaurants deciding they only want to spend $3000 on their system, and ended up with something that was about as useful and flexible as a boat anchor.

 

[POSMaster]

Hi

Thank you guys for sharing with me your information and your thoughts about "big guys". As you mentioned before, I will try to stay away from the "big guys", because they can not adapt to the newest technology + they will charge me for every additional dots and commas.

Maitre D' - very impressive application, however these guys located in Canada, aren't they?
Restaurant Manager - by ASI looks fine, but I think they belongs to the "big guys" family.
NextPOS - by Aldelo looks great, but(see found comparison)
Ciao (spelling (Chow)) - with no intentions to insult, but who came up with this name - didn't find almost any information about them + they are again in Canada?
Digital Dinning (I reccomend this one for your third choice to investigate) - I sorry, but their web site didn't make to much of impression on me. sorry again!
Positouch - "big guys" family.

After spending 10-15 minutes I found their web site -

http://www.posnet.us

+ I even found somebody that was refering to them -

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/24609792/m/590008655731.

In addition I spoke with them on the phone and they told me that they different from other, because of their unique features:
No cost for changes and extras.
Fast internet transactions.
On-going back-up in 2 locations.
Being able to make changes off-premise live.

What I still can not understand is - why the "big guys" can not make the same features that look very exciting to me as a buyer.
I have a few days to make a decision.

Again, thank you guys.

P.S.
Things that I probably didn't mentioned:
My restaurant is in Los Angeles area.

 

[AkamaiAloha]

POS Master,

Some good points, and it looks like you've done your homework.
Maitre D' is candaian, as are Silverware and System3--maybe I am shooting myself in the foot with this one, but the only reason I even mentioned Maitre D is because we seem to run into them a lot. Software-wise, I am not sure where they stand, but I am assuming they must be decent.

Restaurant Manager--I'd call them a tweener Not small, but not big either. A solid software package, with a nice handheld. Whether or not I'd buy from them depends on how I felt about their dealer.

POSitouch--a big guy for sure--not as hot as Micros or Aloha, but established. In the end, you're right---they could probably take or leave your business. On the plus side, they have been around for years.

Ciao--I am at a loss here--dont know 'em, never heard of 'em.

Digital Dining-I agree. Doesn't knock my socks off, but they've been around for a while, and have a solid client base.

Not long ago, we ran into a client who was also very impressed with POSnet. Again, wish I had more info for ya. The only thing I got from it was that they were pushing the client hard with the "we can support you from here" aspect. That leads me to believe they probably don't have an established dealer network in local markets. The PRO to this is a lower price to the end user (hopefully). The CON is, no local representation (unless they are local to you, of course).

I agree with where you're going. Leaving the big guys for the corporate accounts and chains. For a smaller, single chain restaurant, go with someone who is stable, but hungry for your business. The little guys need to stick together. When I buy hardware for my business, do you think I go to Best Buy or Circuit City? Hell no.

How many terminals are you looking for, and what is your budget?

 

[suchasynic]

http://www.squirrelsystems.com

 

[POSMaster]

suchasynic,

Can you tell me a little bit more than just putting their URL - cause it's look too much biased for me.
We are here not just to put URL like ...

thank you for the link, however I think Squirrel future is - no future
1.

http://www.squirrelsystems.com/about/contact_us.asp

shows me an error. Sad, but if their contact web page doesn't work can I wish for more when I need their help
2. I spoke with a couple of my friends and they told me that Squirrel stepping down from their North USA operations.
3. Squirrel is big hero for a big shots - again "big guys" family.

-> What I need is that somebody will seat with me and listen + my waiting time for new features and changes is close to "no-time". I don't need these "big guys" to come and explain to me how to run my business + wait for their technician to run with Flash memory card to my restaurant, or worse send me an email with an update.

Sorry, suchasynic, but that's not for me.


AkamaiAloha,
I'm going to need 7 terminals with one server + 4 web cameras + 3 kitchen printers, etc...
Regarding a question about the budget - make me an offer that I can't regret!

AkamaiAloha,
Just to make it clear - are you really an Aloha employee?

Final Conclusion:
From my phone conversation and a bit of referals I would stick with POSnet (they promised me a full data backup (they call it a real-time database redundancy) + labor schedule + table management for free).

P.S.
At least a contact web page of POSnet is working

http://www.posnet.us/Support.aspx

 

[AkamaiAloha]

Ha, no.. I am not an Aloha employee--I worked for a dealer for a few years ago, and we support some customers that have it now. It's a solid system. I'd buy that before I'd by Micros. And some years ago, they didn't have that big company thing going on, so I liked them even more then. They maintain a reseller network, so the service you get will vary from region to region. So, for me to say that Aloha won't give you the personalized service your asking for, would be both unfair and unfounded. What I will say, is that my experience with a lot those dealers is that they are under a lot of pressure to sell (especially since Radiant took over). That being said, I am finding that with sales and installations, service ends up taking a back seat. I think this happens in all types of service businesses. But I am sure there are some talented Aloha business owners that are able to balance the sales/service workload. It's just not the norm.

I am not trying to sell you on any particular system, just trying to be helpful. You have to be just as cautious buying smaller systems, so you don't end up with a piece of garbage. I was just asking as general rule, what you expected to spend. We finally got to the point where that's one of the first questions we ask. Personally, I'd rather not talk about price right off the bat. But 1) The customer usually ask pretty quickly and 2) There can be such a wide gap sometimes, between what customers think it will cost vs. what it actually costs, it is better to get that out of the way.

For example, I would guess a seven terminal Aloha system to be around $30k (no cameras). And I bet you're probably paying less than 20 with POSNet.

 

[POSMaster]

How much do you think Aloya making from software and how much from hardware?

 

[AkamaiAloha]

It's really tough to say. They say the industry average for POS is around 10%, which really isn't that great. I can tell you POS techs (in other words, IT people) are not cheap. Let's just say they are not paying 1/2 their staff $2.52 per hour like some busines owners! And Aloha and Micros haven't helped themselves much by getting into price wars. One keeps trying to undercut the other, and soon or later, no one is making money. In defense of all the dealers out there, I know the consumers see those fat figures and think they're getting rich. Ten years ago, this was probably true. But now there are almost no margins on hardware. Consumers are smarter than they've ever been--with the Internet at their finger tips, all they need to know is the name of whatever it is your selling, and they can find it for next to nothing. On just about every bid, the customer at some point considers providing their own hardware (we can all thank Dell for this, since they have fasley given everyone the impression that you can have a decent computer for $299). So, the resellers try to make some money on the software, and then the labor for the installation. To make matters worse, it's a very competitive business... in our area alone, there are a dozen or POS companies, and all the POS systems mentioned here are represented in this area (as well as some others).

Mind you, I am not complaining--sooner or later, competition benefits everyone. But a lot of end users see those large figures, and just assume there is a lot of "wiggle room" in the price--and sometimes, there just isn't.

 

[POSWizard]

Buy the small guy....and you will kick yourself in less than a year. You will turn around and buy the BIG GUY, or you will will deal with system malfuntions, software limitations, and no support. Aloha, sure they have ok software...but the hardware! They will put anything in to close the deal. And who will support the hardware once it's in? No One, they will offer to sell you a third party support agreement. This is much like buying a Ford Truck, but they will not warranty it through the dealer. You must buy a warranty from some international company.

Let's face it..POS is POS, and Hardware is Hardware. Some hardware is built cheaper and will ave issues immediatly and some will last longer. But when it breaks, this is when the true support matters. Will it be the same guy who sold it"MICROS", or will it be a third party company"Aloha", who will fit you in when your nu,ber comes up.

These cheaper solutions, like Digital Dining, Postech, etc...will tell you wat ever you want to hear. Ask for references, and more than one. Call and find out about service. Doing this will really tell you who's there to sell, and who's there to support. Most systems with the exception of micros is sold by dealer and independants. So that means Aloha..Radiant, could careless of your support or service. MICROS manufactures and supports is products, you can always get resolution to issues. If your local office can not fix the issue, it can go to MICROS corporate...who else can say that.

 

[AdamDR]

POSWizard,

Please don't bash products and support that you don't know anything about. I sell Aloha, and the hardware. If the hardware breaks, I fix it, or (if it's Radiant equipment) Radiant will send you a new one next day air. I fix hardware same day. My clients have very little down time. It's not the product or the software, IT'S THE DEALER. If you are not happy with your dealer, you send a letter to Radiant and they will assign a different dealer to support you. Trust me, I've acquired a few clients this way.

"They will put anything in to close the deal" That right there proves how ignorant you are. I'm sorry for being defensive, but I hate when people turn support forums into bashing sessions.

The point is that support is on a per dealer basis. You can't say that because one dealer is bad they're all bad. It's like saying that since you had bad luck with one mechanic, then all mechanics are bad. It just doesn't make any sense. I've got great rapport with my clients because I don't dick around when it comes to giving support, and I won't "just sell them anything" because if I sell them crap, guess who has to support it? I'm just saying that your theory holds no water.

 

[AkamaiAloha]

I have to agree, the post was a little harsh, and technically inaccurate in a few respects. It was pretty much an across the board smack-down on every POS system except Micros--who consquently, is probably the one I hear the most complaints about in our area. LOL. Hey, they are the biggest I guess, so they must be doing something right. But I've gotten complaints about both Aloha and Micros for being too focus on sales and not enough on service. With just about any POS system you can find an unhappy customer, we all know this. So, that said, I am not trying to turn this into a flaming session--but please don't come on here acting like Micros is the only viable solution, because that's nothing short of ridiculous. That's kind of the way the post came across.

From your post, I would assume you work for Micros.. but I am guessing your just a fan, because what you said is inaccurate--they absolutely do use a dealer network, just like Aloha. If you buy a system, you'll be dealing with their reseller, just like Aloha, etc. And as Adam pointed out, some dealers are good, some aren't. So your service may vary.

I will take issue with you on one thing, Adam. Maybe it depends on who your regional manager is, but it is NOT easy to get support from another dealer, esepcially when it comes to buying software. It could be done with Ibertech, if you did enough complaining. But I have had a number of clients try to do it since then, and they were met with fierce resistance. I think this is the take-it-or-leave-it approach Radiant has brought to the table. Not saying it's not possible to get a new dealer--but I wouldn't call it easy. And I don't blame them to some extent--there are some customers out there that will complain or blow up about the smallest thing, and will drag a company's name through the mud over next to nothing. But none of my clients have had much success trying to get the software from another dealer.
(btw, I am not talking about support... you can buy support from any dealer, as far as I know... I am talking about software sales, like upgrades).

 

[DTSMAN]

Depends on how much the of a weight the customer carries. We got sub contracted to a job from another POS dealer in our area because they did not have the time to do it. It turns out that they did not have a lot of time for this 30plus chain and growing and when they met us, they wanted us, they wrote a letter to the software distributor (in this case Aloha), and we now handle this account which is now at 50 stores, software sales and all. That dealer I believe went under and the new dealer that moved into the area raised a fuss, and wanted it back, Radiant gave the customer the choice and they are still with us.
The local dealer with Restaurant Manager just went under and left all his customers out in the cold, some without complete systems that were paid for.
References, References, References, References, References, References, and the golden cliche--You get what you pay for. F-- the POS system you are paying for service in this industry, if my company picked up a product that everyone else thought was bad, it wouldn't be if it came from us, because we would tweak it to optimum performance and cookie cutter that image. We don't let the customers call all the shots because we know what works and what is needed.
Also buy systems that run on open architecture. If you buy Micros, when your done with it, you still have a Micros system. If you buy open architecture systems, when your done with them your left with pentium computers with windows licenses that can have another software loaded on them and have an easier resell. (Micros cheap version does not have hard drives in them)
If you bought a Ford, what do you think the Ford plant would say if you called them with an issue??

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."

 

[POSWizard]

MICROS not open architecture? Every single new piece they sell with the exception of the WS4 is open architecture, and that even is left for discussion. Micros has many of their competiors using micros hardware to run their software.

The WS4 runs MICROSOFT CE.NET, and uses DOC and Compact Flash technology.....Why? Easy, No Virus Infection, NO-Moving Parts, and is manufactured for the Hospitality Market. I give credit to Radiant they have done the same. Who else? Not Squirrel, not DD, MD.

Yes MICROS does use a dealer network...but if you need support you can go directly to the MICROS corporate Help Desk. Does Aloha offer that? Does Digital Dining? Posiflex?

 

[AkamaiAloha]

Actually, a few systems beyond those mentioned do offer windows CE solutions, I know we do. And while agree it's probably the right direction to go, I understand for those who have used it say it comes with it's own set of problems (like every new technology). As a side note, there are virus that do infect the CE OS. Nonetheless, I think it's a good idea, since a virus is likely to come from your internet connection on the server, and probably won't infect the FOH.

As far as going to corporate for support, I was unaware that they did this. This is probably a good thing for the customer, but no so good for the dealer. In any case, I think all POS company's should offer this in certain situations, and I think most of them do, if it warrants it.

 

[DTSMAN]

How do people pick their screen names?? I use my name because, heck, I have nothing to hide. I guess I only have 15 years of experience and not yet a 'POSMaster' or a 'POSWizard' one that can't pick a system and the other who is only familiar with one system. I am aware of Micros capabilities and hardware platforms (mainly the one we have to bid against), but I also help many others with general knowledge and recomendations of a dozen restaurant softwares, a half dozen or so retail softwares, and not to mention ECRs of all shapes and sizes.
Sometimes you should be a little open-minded when posting.

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."

 

[AkamaiAloha]

Agreed. I think said this earlier in the post. These are all basically doing the same thing--settling checks, printing orders to the kitchen. There are probably 30 software packages that would suit the needs of 90% of the people out there.

So Bo, are are you of the opinion that Master and POSVendor are one in the same?

 

[AdamDR]

ooooooh,

I'm gonna change my name to POSJedi, cuz then I would look like I know what I'm talking about!

Anyway, I'm done with that Micro's dealer, he's not worth ruining this fine forum. I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow, so I will talk with you guys when I get back. BTW, I'm going to St. Marteen in the Caribbean....can't wait. Oh and it's spring break too, woohoo!

Adam