Confused about networking... 3

[smaxted]

Hey guys, I'm hoping to connect 3 computers to a network so they can share internet (dial-up), share hard drives, share printer, scanner and play games against each other. The only thing is I don't know where to begin... Could someone please help me on what I need and how to set-it up... Scotty Mac a.k.a smaxted

"Another day, another problem"

 

[Bossbambos]

Scotty,
Could you give as more information on what you got hardware and OS PLEASE?

 

[wlpsyp]

More info please. Modem types, OS type

 

[smaxted]

Ok...well I have windows ME on three computers.
Computer A (which will be the server) has an MSI KT4VL motherboard, AMD XP 1800+, 512 mb 2700 DDR, 80 Gb maxtor Hd, Asus GeForce 4 Ti4200 64 mb ram, Sony DVD rom, 24x10x40 cd-writer, A Open v.92 modem 56k.
Computer B is an AMD ATHLON 750 Mhz, Asus KT7 mobo, GeForce 2 MX420 32 mb, 384 pc 100 sdram, 44x Cd-Rom, 60 gb Maxtor
Computer C is an 500mhz AMD k6-2, FIC mobo (VA503+),128 mb pc100 ram, 64 mb radeon 7000, 4 gb quantum big foot, 32x12x40 cd-writer, sound card

Computer A and B have onboard sound, and B and C contain generic 56k modems.

Hopefully that will satisfy you to answer my question...thanks Scotty Mac a.k.a smaxted

"Another day, another problem"

 

[CitrixEngineer]

Crash course in networking;

Each computer requires the hardware to connect, so you'll need a Network Interface Card (NIC) for each computer.

Then you need some wire to connect the cards. Ethernet with RJ45 jacks are most common. For 2 PCs, a single crossover cable will suffice, but for 3 PCs, you'll also need a hub. These days, switching hubs are almost the same price as non-switching hubs, so get one of these.

Make sure the NICs and Switch are 100Mb/sec Full Duplex. I'll go into more detail if you like

Hardware sorted, all you need now is to install the software driver. If you bought 3Com or Intel NICs, a generic driver will be installed by your Operating System - in all likelihood.

Last, but by no means least is the protocol. You'll already have TCP/IP installed for your modem, and this is what I use on my home network. You may choose to use NetBEUI, if all your systems are Windows-based, since it is much simpler; you just install it and it works.

TCP/IP, however, is more complex and requires further explanation (I'm not going to go into what it is or how it works, just the basics you need to get started);

[TCP/IP]

It's relatively straightforward to configure TCP/IP for a home network; simply choose 3 IP addresses from the range 192.168.1.x (where x is any number from 0 - 255). Out of habit, I leave 1 (gateway) - 10 alone. NEVER use 0 (network), 127 (loopback) or 255 (broadcast). For subnet mask, simply use 255.255.255.0. There are other private IP ranges, but you can look them up if you're interested

Since you are not connected up to a network which has Name Resolution servers, you may need a secondary method of resolving computer names on your home network.

This is what the lmhosts file does. You will have a copy called lmhosts.sam in your windows folder. Simply open this and save it as lmhosts, then add lines such as

MyComp1 192.168.1.11
MyComp2 192.168.1.12
MyComp3 192.168.1.13

Do this on each PC, and File sharing and LAN gaming will work a treat. You can also share printers.

/[TCP/IP]


Next step is to enable Internet Connection Sharing (ICS). You only need one modem on one computer to do this.

That's it!

OK, OK, it's not that straightforward, but neither is building a PC, right? These are the fundamentals, and as long as you have these, everything else is down to your configuration.

Hope this is helpful CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk

 

[smaxted]

Thanks...whats the difference between a switch, a hub, and a router?? Scotty Mac a.k.a smaxted

"Another day, another problem"

 

[mscallisto]

It's probably best not to try and explain in this short thread space but to have you search

http://www.google.com

looking for whats a switch or switch vs hub and let you find an answer that you feel comfortable with.

example:

http://www.mycableshop.com/techarticles/hubswitch.htm

 

[drdebit]

I spent a lot of time in stores looking at pictures on boxes and asking questions of the salespeople to get a start on answering that question.
My comments probably have a lot of technical flaws, but perhaps they can be a quick starting point to help you go forward quickly.
The router is a device you need behind the cable modem to talk to the computers. The router which I purchased also has a switch in it. I can connect up to 4 computers to it using rj45 cable. If I understood how to properly use the software, it would also net work. (and in that sense, I think the basic answer to your question (after you get the nics and rj45 cable)is to look at products from companies like Belkin, DLink, or Linksys and find a combination router and 4 port switch that permits internet connection and networking. )

The hub or switch goes behind (or in the router) to permit more than one computer to share a single connection. There are electronic differences between hubs and switches which let switches be a faster connection.

You can also use hubs/switches to cascade your connection from the router (or the switch in the router) and add additional devices. For example, to connect my two computers in the basement, but have only one hole in the floor, I connect the basement cable to the uplink (crossover) port in the router switch, and put another switch in the basement and plug the two computers into it.

The two links below might help with a few ideas to give you your next set of questions.

http://www.homenethelp.com/router-guide/index.asp

http://www.linksys.com/edu/glossary.asp

 

[smah]

Here's some more info on the differences:

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/networking/bridge_types.htm

 

[smaxted]

I found the answer. I hub is basically a switch and vice versa. But a router connects more than one hub. Scotty Mac a.k.a smaxted

"Another day, another problem"

 

[smah]

I hub is basically a switch and vice versa.
Not really - they connect multiple computers on the same network, but that's where the similarity ends.

But a router connects more than one hub.
Your statement is usually true, but not for the reason that you think. A router is used to connect different networks, which are quite likely to have hubs or switches.

 

[mscallisto]

Kinda but kinda not really.

Think of hubs as sort of dumb, inexpensive switches costing tens of dollars. These are great for "simple" home networks, especially those not involving tcp/ip and dhcp.


While switches, especially "smart switches" can be very sophisticated large system devices costing thousands of dollars.

 

[diogenes10]

I'm curious,
In a situation like this is it better to just buy a switch, or to buy a router with a switch and use only the switch part but then have the capability for cable/dsl later?

 

[temicro]

Broadband networking...

I have 2(sometimes 3) computers on my network, but can hook up to 4 or 5 if I want. I have a cheap $40 5-Port switch (don't even remember the name brand) & it does fine. I didn't have to install any software or anything. I'm using WinXP, but WinME shouldn't be a whole lot different. 2000/XP is much easier to setup though.
My setup is as follows:

PC #1 = Server
2 Network Cards (NICs) - 1(acting as router) connected to cable modem.

NIC #1 IP (auto) - Connects to Cable Modem

NIC #2 IP 192.168.0.1 - Connects to Switch
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.0.1

DNS(Earthlink): 207.69.188.185 / 207.69.188.186

===============

PC #2 = My gaming rig
1 Network Card - Connects to Switch

IP Address: 192.168.0.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.0.1

DNS(Earthlink): 207.69.188.185 / 207.69.188.186

** You will probaby need DNS from your ISP also if you want to browse the web

** You don't need crossover cables, just normal Cat5 'straight through' cables.

** For additional computers, just copy the settings from PC #2 & change the IP address - usually bump it up 1 # on the end(192.168.0.#) & plug the cable from the computer to the Switch.

Hope this is helpful.

Adam

 

[CitrixEngineer]

Just to clarify;

For ADSL networking and a small network, a router with built-in hub is ideal.

There is a major difference between a switch and a hub, although they perform much the same function - to direct packets from one host on one network to another host on the same network.

A hub simply broadcasts all packets that come to it around the network until they reach the machine they're intended for.

A switch knows exactly which machine requires the packets, and sends them straight there, thus reducing overall network traffic and time spent waiting for packets by host machines.

A Full Duplex switch allows its full capacity in both directions (receive and transmit) simultaneously, so that a 100Mb/sec switch can effectively communicate at 200Mb/sec (compared to a Half Duplex unit).

The price of simple Full Duplex switches is within a couple of bucks of a hub, so it's not worth buying a hub at all, IMO. Managed switches, on the other hand can be very expensive - but home networks do not need them.

Crossover cables are only required for direct links between network devices - e.g. PC -> PC, or ADSL router -> Switch/hub uplink.

As opposed to hubs and switches, a router channels network traffic between networks, so an ADSL router channels the 512k ADSL stream onto your 100Mb/sec LAN, for example.

A good ADSL router can serve many functions - for example; built-in firewall, perform Network Address Translation and Port Mapping, and provide DHCP addresses for all clients on your LAN. Intrusion detection and a good logging system is something else to specify.

Have a look at

http://www.adslguide.org

for some independent reviews.

Hope this is helpful CitrixEngineer@yahoo.co.uk

 

[ceh4702]

A hub sends all messages to all connections. Always use a 10/100 Mbps Speed networking Hub that uses RJ45 jacks and Twisted Pair (CAT 5)cable. Note Cat 5e cable is good too, but it is solid copper cable instead of strands. Cat 5e has a little longer range, and is a little faster. Maximum distance is about 300 Feet between the hub/switch and any computer!

A Switch partitions each connection and only sends messages to the inteded connection. A switch may work in full duplex mode and can be up to twice as fast. In a small network of 2-3 computers this is really not important.

A Router Is much more complex. It has at least 2 IP addresses. One for the incoming network and one (or more if it has a switch integrated into it like linksys Cable/DSL routers)IP address/addresses for your internal network. Typically a router can act as if it were a computer itself. A router has its own operating system, and can do all kinds of functions like blocking, filtering, forwarding, etc. A router hides the locally connected computers from the outside Wide Area Netwrok (WAN). It can also take the hardware address of one NIC in your network and masquerade all messages to appear as if they are from the same NIC Card. A router accepts all traffic routed to it and it can block selected ports or different types of traffic. As an example a Router can act as a firewall and refuse to accept ping requests and trace route requests, or it can be set to let them through to all or just one computer.

I suggest when setting up a home network to use a switch. They cost only a little more than a hub. If you can afford it a small Router is ideal also. Often people go from a home network to a router when they get broadband and their hub or switch is then worthless and sits on a shelf after they purchase a router. If you want to save money an inexpensive hub is an option if you can find one really cheap. For a small Hub I would not pay much over $15-$30. I purchased a Linksys Switch for about $40. I also purchased a Linksys Router for $55.00 for Christmas. The prices fluctuate.

http://www.amazon.com

often has sales on home networking equipment. During Christmas they werent even charging for shipping! For more networking help try this website:

http://www.homenethelp.com

They have lots of information, diagrams and pictures of the set up screens for different OS's (Win95/98/NT/2000/XP).

One good thing about Win ME is it can back up your settings and they can be restored. Once your figure it out and get it working, back up your system settings.

1. Get the network working and sharing.
2. Set up the Internet Connection Sharing(ICS). You may have to go to add/remove programs to add it.

You need to set up the networking first and then add the ICS. If ICS is set up first remove it and then add it again if you have problems.

If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[smaxted]

Im still a bit confused...so all I need to set up a network is a switch so i can share internet(dial-up) printer, scanner and play games against each other..oh yeah also share hard drives??

I know I need ethernet cable and cards..but all I need is a switch?? Scotty Mac a.k.a smaxted

"Another day, another problem"

 

[diogenes10]

I think the short answer to your question is yes.
However I think ceh4702 is suggesting that if you spend a few dollars more you can buy a combination router/switch that you will not have to discard later if you upgrade your internet connection to dsl/cable.
For example, (in US) I looked in sunday paper last night.
Saw an after rebate for router/4port switch for $29.99.
Same brand, after rebate special for 5 port switch $19.99.
If you spent the $20 now, and later upgrade to cable/dsl, you'll have to spend another $30 then. Spend the $30 now, you're good for up to 4 computers later, without any additional cost.

 

[diogenes10]

( Might also check thread929-457770 for router suggestions in relation to printer sharing. )

 

[smah]

Yes, to create a small network all you need is a switch (or hub, but a switch is better), cables and network cards. To share an internet connection, you will need a router of some sort ---> that router could be a hardware router, like we're talking about or it could be a 'software router' like Windows "Internet Connection Sharing". For dialup, it's easiest to use ICS or Sygate as your 'router'. If you go to broadband connection you can still do this (after adding a network card), but it's much more convienient to use a hardware router.